Older Content Should still be relevant.

[Xenosan]

I don't know about a new tome currency is the only solution.. but, I do think there should be a reward for the minimum iLvl Sync, if just a few weekly Challenge Log rewards (that give more than gil) or maybe titles/trophies for iLVL minimum clears of EX trials and COIL.

Also I have a hard time believing everyone loves 2-dungeon Roullette for Lore farm. I would appreciate adding Tome rewards to some of the Weekly Challenge Log rewards, which gives players more flexibility on how they get their weekly amount. This I imagine helps post-60 players stay caught up on the weekly totals even when they're having to run on old content to catch low-level friends up to speed.

[Vulcwen]

I think the best way to deal with this issue is to make it an event-like system, something simple as extra tomes (including extra new player bonus) when running a set of content (like a coil tier) level synced, with that set being rotated every 2-4 weeks (possibly disabled right after new content is out, so this bonus fills up the content lulls, and would avoid taking attention away from the new stuff). I'd not enforce the min ilvl sync so people can DF-queue for it and still get that bonus.

The idea for this is similar to how the community set up Crystal Tower sundays.. by focussing the activity on a set time, you're more likely to find people willing to do it at that specific time.

[Dzian]

A lot of the burn out comes from the fact there is soit the content at any given time that's relevant.

At present we have what. Weeping city. Savage midas and I suppose you could add the expert roulettes and palace of the dead.

So what you get is people burning them selves out running this small selection of things continuously because there's nothing else to do....

If content was relevant for longer and more of it was relevant at any given time. You might
Find those players burning themselves out on savage 4 nights a week might only do it once a week as the rest of there week would be doing other relevant contents. And as a result of that savage and other content could easily stay relevant for a lot longer.

Where at present savage for raiders is All there is to do and as such it's the only thing they do its small wonder they burn themselves out with it.

[RopeDrink]

I'm just glad I chose to hold back on hitting 60 on my first character, opting instead to explore other classes, buff up my professions a bit etc.

Am I sick to death of the likes of Sastasha popping up when I want my daily DF leveling XP? Yes, of course, but there is still an insanely large amount of dungeons compared to the other MMORPG's I've played beforehand, so I'll stomach it as variation is usually only a few levels away -- and I consider variation as either trying a different class OR a completely different dungeon (or both). When progression stops and/or you're stuck in a small circle of content, boredom is inevitable. Revitalizing the wealth of older content is just one method that would partially alleviate it - and you can safely assume that, delays aside, they have surely thought of this at some point.

[Deliciou5]

I know what i said before, but i felt the need to address these points.

To your first point, mainly need to find a group instead of just looking at PF. Just like a majority of people did for them when they were still relevant and what people still are doing for current raids.

Hence my idea about cross server friends list, and party finders so there would be larger access to the supposed 1-2% of players doing the content.(Which i still think 1-2% percent only per server is bullshit, it might be more like 7-10%)

To your 2nd point about tomes. For anyone that raids their going to abuse the crap out of this and it will kill current content faster as their gearing faster, which takes away from the current set of raids and dungeon. Thus killing the content faster.

Yes, players can gear up faster, but you are only considering players who play all the time and don't join the scene late, also players can already gear up pretty fast through lore tomestones and boring hunts so why not offer something that gives a SMALL amount of savage tomestones. In the end even if you buy manifestos with it, who is to say how many you will get?If balanced properly, maybe 450 can get you 2 for midas 1/2, and just 1 for 3/4. So even if you clear every fight each week each month your only getting 6 towards one upgrade item for accessories, and 5 towards body pieces or weapon or a piece of gear that you probably already have at 240 for lore tomestone gear....its not really going to make a difference in people's item level, just how fast they can get the pieces for the build that they want. Most savages only last about 6 to 8ish months anyways, so imagine you only had 2 months left with a fresh static before the next update, you would want the extra help.

Also, do you play any alternate classes/jobs? You need to consider that players might be able to gear up more than one class to the fullest potential, and will still be motivated to play. It's already easy to gear up in this game, and yet MANY people still play after hitting level cap. Also if you could only get tier 6 materia for example through savage tomestones maybe people would have something to long term, or have things like savage tomestone mounts and glamour to work towards. It's all in how its balanced with the right kind of incentives. If you are already ilvl 240 through lore tomestones and one or 2 pieces from savage, why would you need to buy manifestos?But some cool mounts,epic egi glamour, and higher tiers of materia might still motivate a person...or to simply work on a new class.

Going back and doing content at it's "maximum" difficulty would be part having everyone learn the fight. As a majority of the difficulty when you're under geared is Party comp and knowing mechanics.


Except it wouldn't inconvenience them at all and they'd more than likely be the only one's to actually benefit from this horrid idea. Doing things at the Max difficulty is touching raid tier.

TLDR: Old content is going to die no matter what due to the speed in which new content is released. Bringing in a new tome system to cheese your way out of current content doesn't help anyone or this cause.

Cheesing is not the right word, cheesing would be like catching absolute virtue on a wall and using a black mage alliance to win cause it can't fight back(ffxi). You still need to clear the progression content to get access to any of the manifestos in the first place. I don't know what kind of parties you run with but for me and many others you need to spend MONTHS AND MONTHS of work to clear even one fight, i don't think anyone is in danger of "cheesing"anything, for many players they will never see the end of midas or gordias savage, cause the lack of parties willing to take newer players and help them, with my cross server friend lists, and cross server party finder, this will help alleviate some of the problems with finding a good static, yes you can't visit each others actual world but you can still build a solid team easier and still que for stuff together. It will still take MANY parties months and MONTHS to beat this content, there is still a ton of parties on my server who quit or never beat gordias savage 3 because of the insane difficulty even when they were geared out the ass. It still takes a good party, there is no danger of any of this content becoming irrelevant any time soon for MOST parties.

Who care if some parties can cap their savage tomestones out more quickly through older content? All that affects is world's first achievement if anything, and i doubt they will gear that much faster without any clears in current progress first since you can't buy tokens of content you haven't cleared yet.

I don't know if most people considered this, but every piece of content has a set time limit, most updates will eventually make the content irrelevant regardless. This is a permanent solution to consider NEWER players not just older ones. If it really is much easier cause players are more practiced at it, god forbid if people use their experience to help newer players out. Not everyone who plays this game is only worried about themselves and their group, older content won't have the weekly lockouts for gear like current savage midas, gordias, and coil back in the day. This is a way to help your FC and your Friends get some practice on harder fights. As for people gearing that much faster....well as i said in a earlier post...its all in how its balanced. Tier 6 materia, Manifestos for fights cleared(so you still have to beat each one), lore tomestone upgrades(or w.e is relevant) and maybe some crafting items for that are for 230 items when cap is 240.

All of these help a player out, but only so many will make a diffence when you still haven't beaten midas savage 4, and you already spent months getting ALL of your lore tometstones and still haven't beaten the content yet. In the end, if the people who do hard content is 1-2% then the people who clear all the fights very quickly are even more so vastly smaller.

If my idea was implemented tomorrow, i bet there will still be many players who haven't beat majority of the savage fights...A YEAR FROM TODAY. Having a wider variety of content will help players find end game more welcoming and help less newer players who are willing to do harder content burn out less quickly. And by the time a year passes im sure even more fights will be released, and all those players who started alex 3 progression next update who never got to complete it will be grateful its still there as a long time goal.

[Seku]

Hence my idea about cross server friends list, and party finders so there would be larger access to the supposed 1-2% of players doing the content.(Which i still think 1-2% percent only per server is bullshit, it might be more like 7-10%)

Which is probably the only decent idea.

Yes, players can gear up faster, but you are only considering players who play all the time and don't join the scene late,

Killing off newer content by trying to keep old content is thinking about newer players? Let me break this down...

People do X event. Get Y item. Stop doing event. You've just killed off newer content by some degree faster.

Introducing yet another redundant system that allows you to gear faster won't cause a wave of new people to help with old content, other wise mentors would be blowing up, but oh wait it isn't. You'll more than likely get something like "Leviathan EX Speed runs for savage tomes - no bonus message"

also players can already gear up pretty fast through lore tomestones

I know, thank you for agreeing with me. Stop trying to make it faster.

Also, do you play any alternate classes/jobs? You need to consider that players might be able to gear up more than one class to the fullest potential, and will still be motivated to play.

When I feel like. I've already considered it. People gearing up to full potential = content irrelevant = no motivation to play. Yet again...you're proving my point.

It's already easy to gear up in this game,

My point proven again

and yet MANY people still play after hitting level cap. Also if you could only get tier 6 materia for example through savage tomestones

If many people play irrelevant content after hitting ilevel cap, why is this a thing and what are you fighting for? Also why do you need to make this new idea of yours be the only means or method to obtain an item? Oh wait because a lot of people DON'T PLAY after maxing out.

Cheesing is not the right word,

No Cheesing is the right word. Allowing people to obtain highest tier rewards for re-doing already well known fights (which makes them vastly easier) to further the ilevel progression is cheesing your way through progression. As by your logic, let's go pay for a carry about a month and a half way in of the current savage tier and then do Leviathan EX to get Midas Savage gear.....yea. no.

for many players they will never see the end of midas or gordias savage, cause the lack of parties willing to take newer players and help them,

Part of that is lack of determination or willingness to make a group. Introducing another tomestone system isn't going to fix this.

with my cross server friend lists, and cross server party finder, this will help alleviate some of the problems with finding a good static

There you go

there is still a ton of parties on my server who quit or never beat gordias savage 3 because of the insane difficulty even when they were geared out the ass.

So they quit due to the fact they couldn't clear the content, not that they didn't have anyone that didn't want to help or lack of players willing to learn. Also if they couldn't do the content while it was relevant and with the ilevel advantage, why would they do it "the hard way.".

It still takes a good party, there is no danger of any of this content becoming irrelevant any time soon for MOST parties.

Except it already is irrelevant, except for maybe glamour.

Who care if some parties can cap their savage tomestones out more quickly through older content?

Because with the things you're proposing it takes away from current raids, dungeons, and trials.

All that affects is world's first achievement if anything, and i doubt they will gear that much faster without any clears in current progress first since you can't buy tokens of content you haven't cleared yet.

Buy a win => Leviathan EX => ??? => Savage gear profit => Done. Even with Gordias savage some groups were pulling off 7 man groups on the earlier floors within a few weeks.

I don't know if most people considered this, but every piece of content has a set time limit, most updates will eventually make the content irrelevant regardless.

YOU FINALLY GET IT THANK GOD!

This is a permanent solution to consider NEWER players not just older ones.

No it's not a solution. Your tome idea will only help out statics gear progress faster which in turn causes the content to die faster, which causes statics or rather people seeking statics to lower down. Your cross-sever PF / Friend list idea will help make new statics but would not revive old content like they were just released yesterday and instead probably would end up functioning to make groups for current things.

If it really is much easier cause players are more practiced at it, god forbid if people use their experience to help newer players out.

Mentor roulette is already here and that's already failing. More so with old Primal extremes that are ilevel capped so players that are more practiced can help newer players out

Not everyone who plays this game is only worried about themselves and their group,

But a majority are and even if they weren't, I'm sure they'd go and do current content. But if there is free time or a more casual FC, I'm sure they could do what other people have been suggesting all along and make a group event out of it. :O

TLDR: Players get item -> Players stop doing content -> Content dies. Introducing a tome system to compliment the already existing systems quickens the process. Synced Levi EX for savage items that are only a month old - no thanks.

[Lambdafish]

Orchestrion, primal mounts, relic, coil tombstones, primal material drops. There are plenty of reasons to run old ex primals and coil (though IMO the coil tombstones should have been untradeable, it's faceroll at this point anyway). The main thing lacking any replay value is the CT series, which ironically needs far more incentive.

[ADVSS]

Lets be real the only time in 3.0 that sastasha made me smile was when i went in that over used crap and unsynced and solo
d it at 60. Seriously. old content i did thousands of times on different jobs at different levels of their progression since story was covoered on my main? Are you kidding me? lets revive this stuff more than it has been past levelling roullette or joining a FC requires i click two buttons? and thats super hard!?Like for real, lets revitalize cutters cry, some day in hell the final boss will drop something other than PENANCE the belt btw.... he will and he will drop these two wtf items: Paladin trousers, and seers coat. HAS ANYONE seen anything else drop from that boss besides these three items? I really want to know

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Snip

Thank you, you have pretty much said everything I have said and more.

[Deliciou5]

Snip

I understand that you are worried about current progression becoming irrelevant quicker , however, that is no excuse to sit there and pretend that we shouldn't figure out a way for older and NEWER players to experience older content. In the end, you are too worried about current progression rather than figuring out how newer players who never had a time machine or a way for them to even have a chance. It's all how Square enix chooses to balance it properly by changing the way end game is played out, i am sure they would make it so you wouldn't be able to cheat your way through progression if you can't even clear the fights according to my idea.

Content already has a time limit through regular tomestones to get the best gear in many weeks anyways instead of gearing through savage..which means that in order for content to not become quickly irrelevant in the current state of the game you need to assume square enix wouldn't allow this to happen in the new version of end game. Instead they would probably re-balance of how lower tier of tomestones would work or how best in slot gear is obtained so everything would remain at a similar pace if not a slower one. Players are constantly joining and creating characters. You also need to consider that a good number of people are not running this content day 1...and some never get a chance at all.

It's time for a way to do things differently, that's the whole point. Square enix wouldn't just change one or two aspects, i am sure they would still find a way to keep content relevant. Progression or old.

For example: Making hunts no longer a thing for tomestone upgrade items, and having savage tomestones as one of the only ways to upgrade them, that alone would make a natural part of progression instead of making things happen even faster. In the end, there will still be a reason to run content for savage tomestones every month even after you beat all the current progression fights, as much as you say it will die out there will still be an incentive to do the fights after you have personally lost interest doesn't mean there won't be new players, or those who wish to level up new classes, or people who don't get sick of content so easily.

Another Example:What if tier SIX materia could only be bought with savage tomestones? There would be alot of incentive to still gather these savage tomestones, once again, even after getting "bored" of the current progression fights. I dare say having a large selection to choose from would actually help alleviate some of that boredom.

Another Example: For groups who don't care about lore tomestone(or w/e is relevant at the time) and only gear themselves through latest savage. Square enix could increase the number of tokens(manifestos) it takes to obtain anything to stop players from supposedly cheesing it through savage. Even though i don't think this would be entirely necessary if materia is still relevant to upgrade for your gear slots and you needed savage tomestones to obtain the highest or the best.

Another: For example lore equipment wouldn't be easily obtained since Square might increase how much they cost.Same as previous example, but i think more tolerable and might even increase the number of people doing harder fights since they would try to find ways to gear up faster and if they only make harder fights the way to get best in slot like it was when Heavensward was first released with gordias savage then i think it will actually might slow down progression IN JUST THE RIGHT WAY. Increasing the number of weeks it takes to get a single item, you would still see them as worth getting every week, just it would be balanced to consider the new savage tomestones.

It is very hard for me to not see you as assuming everything will remain the same, expect one or two things. MY idea is a foundation to build off of, not an exact representation of what square enix will ultimately do. They are a team of people i am sure they would be far more creative that I and find even better ways to keep both old and progression content relevant. If square enix chooses to balance how you even obtain gear differently and make things happen at a slower pace all around, your argument of things becoming obsolete too quickly becomes completely invalid.You cannot just consider each part of my ideas in individual bubbles, they are meant to be taken as a whole as a entire rebalance, and while i admit my idea does has some flaws, those flaws are easily fixed with a bit of critical thinking.

In the end all the old content is optional, you don't need to run levi ex(that is retooled to a more savage version anyways with new mechanics essentially making it a newer version of the fight that you can't easily beat.) since if your doing current progression, according to my idea you would get the majority of your tomestones through savage dungeon roulette which is easier mid core content or through current savage progression which would offer larger chunks of savage tomestones since they are the latest content, kinda like how expert dungeons get more tomes than previous ones which means you would never need to do the older fights if you get your current progression clears every week. You can't assume that if a player gets a item that they will stop doing content, some may be like that but others also like to play with their friends and play other classes as well,or to obtain materia to finish gearing out their class, or you know maybe the whole reason they want to gear themselves out at all is not just to clear current savage but other types of new content Square enix will release in the future such as revamped SAVAGE primal fights. Not everyone is so self centered or gets bored of the game so easily, in the end this idea adds more goals for the vast majority.

When i say content has a time limit, i only speak of how low Square enix will keep it relevant for players to experience it with the difficulty as intended when first released. Doesn't mean players have no interest in doing it, that's your way of twisting my words. Square enix has already introduced raid finder...which on some level they want more players to do harder content,and even considered adding primal fights to it, which means a very limited version of that mentality that they want players to find EX/savage parties easier for content...old and new... has already come into play.

Honestly raid finder is really abysmal because there is many features and things the idea is lacking, like an incentive bonus like savage tomestones, or the ability to determine what exact party setups you can get, or the ability to communicate easily and be able to go in and out with the same group once they find each other and want to run with each other again. Between all the different servers, i am sure there is a good number who would want to try to do older content the hard way,you yourself admitted to cross server friends list and party finder being a good idea, they need to take it a step further and allow people to have raid finder roulette's or some kind of reward for using raid finder or something akin to it since people have limited time to play so they would need to see it as worth it with a proper incentive for all that effort. As for people having limited time, as always the monthly cap would not be considerably hard to achieve and people would feel its better time spent than doing something like banal boring hunts for tomestone upgrades.

In the end i respect your criticism because it helps me think of what ways i can shore up my idea further. Thank you.