3.3 Patch Notes(Pre)

[Warlyx]

BRD/MCH on the far left because it looks fabulous and that's a bard thing.

Purely guesswork, though.

is because the pink

[Alistaire]

With the nature of mass pulls though Doton is still a good idea for 5+ mob pulls as they do take a tad bit longer, if anything I see it as making Katon look more attractive in general, but I do feel like for the most part Doton/Katon's relationship is the same.

Doton has nothing to do with the # of mobs pulled. If a big pull takes that long you're either not using death blossom, which is bad, or you or someone is either really undergeared of afk.

So doton is 40/tic per mob for 8 ticks, totalling 320 potency (with the new 3.3 value). If a mob is dead before those last 2 ticks it did 240 to that mob vs katon doing 250. Previously a mob that took 6 ticks would be exactly on par with katon, so the only difference is katon is quicker to cast.

If you have 4 mobs and the first 2 go down in 4 ticks, it takes 2 mobs taking 8 ticks for it to average out to katon's damage (or with the new values just below katon's damage).

The only time to doton is when most of the existing mobs are going to last long enough, or on pulls where mobs join in mid-pull like in antitower with the fire elementals etc.

"The nature" of a big pull is honestly the same as a 3-mob pull; aoe things down. The only problem with doing that on 3-mob pulls is when there's not enough rest time between them and you deplete tp, but in these current dungeons that's not even close to the case.

[Warlyx]

katon should have been "stonekin" for the nin for 5s or something like that.....or a debuff that lowers dmg done ...

[ErryK]

katon should have been "stonekin" for the nin for 5s or something like that.....or a debuff that lowers dmg done ...

Ninjas already have a "Stoneskin", it's called Shade Shift. Why would a NIN have a mitigation debuff? They're more of a character support type rather than raid support, what with aggro management skills and Goad. I suppose the only raid support they do have is Trick Attack. But NIN is in a good spot in regards to support, so I don't see why this is being brought up.

[Alistaire]

katon should have been "stonekin" for the nin for 5s or something like that.....or a debuff that lowers dmg done ...

Do you mean doton? Katon is the fire one. Asking for a fire ability to be stoneskin doesn't make much sense, but an earth one would, which is doton. Doton would be fine as is if it didn't have such a high requirement of uptime to be on par with katon.

[Nalien]

Ninjas already have a "Stoneskin", it's called Shade Shift.

I hate this, personally... I miss Perfect Dodge so much... Nothing like sitting in a Landslide and dodging it... Could have had amazing synergy with Haymaker, if Haymaker was worth a damn, too...

As far as changing Katon/Dotons effect... I'm hoping SE eventually gives us a Ninjutsu for every possible combination of Mudra... So rather than having two combinations for Doton, we perhaps have Ten→Jin→Chi for Doton, and Jin→Ten→Chi for "Doton II", perhaps a Stun + Knockback (though that's useless outside PvP) with an animation similar to Suiton (but with stone instead of water)... "Huton II" would be Utsusemi, because damn right it should be... Alternatively, rather than making use of the excess combinations, we could just have a cooldown that alters their effects...

Really hope 4.0 gives us more Ninjutsu to play with somehow... 3.0s skills weren't bad, but they're kinda boring to look at... A new set of flashy Ninjutsu would be sweet...

[MagiusNecros]

I hate Shadeshift. Give me my Perfect Dodge back.

[Warlyx]

Do you mean doton? Katon is the fire one. Asking for a fire ability to be stoneskin doesn't make much sense, but an earth one would, which is doton. Doton would be fine as is if it didn't have such a high requirement of uptime to be on par with katon.

yeah doton , my bad.

yeah nin have a CD that mitigates 20% hp (physical only tho...so useles in 80% of the bosses where it really matters....)

Doton....the aoe is weak and used once in a blue moon , and debuff like virus or -10% dmg taken inside the aoe (sch bubble) or -dmg done like war would have been awesome the debuff need to last and Nin would sacrifice dps for it ....

[Pinkie_Pie]

I'm curious why they put back the healing debuff for PvP. Didn't they remove that around when the Feast was released?

Cause ninjas sucked in pvp. This will have them have a reason to bring one.

[SirDiscoFrog]

Doton has nothing to do with the # of mobs pulled.

I mainly mentioned that because most +5 pulls in general do seem to take longer than smaller groups of adds (You mentioned Antitower but Lost City (HM) also has several pulls like this, the mass pull at the gate that spawns butterflys is the main one i can think of as well as the 2 pulls before the Winged Lion boss) I'm definitely not the best NIN, average honestly and AoEing is something I did have to do a bit of research on once I hit 50 and 9 times outta 10 up until I got to 60 if i used a Doton, the targets would be alive for its full duration and then by then if i had another ninjustu id probably follow up with katon at that point unless i was the only one AoEing. Even then there are a lot of pulls I have seen that do last at least 30-40 seconds, slightly less if my healer is dpsing too (Typically looking out for my dots as a SMN. Bio II does fall off in many mass pull instances, sometimes requiring me to bane again even if the enemy is not low enough). In content where the whole party is over-geared and dpsing or in a lot of raid instances yeah things do melt pr fast when its trash like some of void ark's 24 man trash rooms.

I will admit Doton overall is underwhelming but I dont think its super useless. Maybe its just because Doton reminds me a lot of Shadowflare lol

Cause ninjas sucked in pvp. This will have them have a reason to bring one.

That would explain it, I noticed WAR didn't get that change given back to it, unless that happened in an earlier patch. Wonder how much itll help.....