Why do people want Blue Mage in this game?

[NaesakiAshwell]

I am glad you enjoy your poor man's Necromancer. If you envisioned Summoner as a class that enfeebles it's enemies with debilitation's to do 60% of their damage(something a summoner never did ever), relegate their pet to 33% of their damage via auto's, only use each pet for shield or contagion and the occasional Enkindle and primarily rely on using all your base Arcanist skills for the bulk of your damage then by all means "Summoner" was quite the success I must say.

I'd talk about Dark Knight but me and Tanathya would be here for a week. TLDR Dark Knight is primarily a DRK in name only. It works as a Tank class but it could have been executed so much better.

You act like a job can't ever be reinvented to suit the game and world its in, it fits in fine with the scope of the game. You are forgetting what Summoner builds off in the first place and I do hope in future expansions the new abilities Summoner get are more orientated towards the pet and honestly I am quite saddened at the fact we aren't getting new egi's any time soon with different abilities only glamours instead

Other than summoning Eidolons, Summoner didn't really have any other tricks up it sleeve. It either piggybacked off black mage or white mage, so they had to give it a kit in some form. I mean I would have liked it if they worked in tandom and all their spells reflected the egi that was summoned but it didn't and I doubt they'll ever rebuild the class from scratch, so yes I'm happy with what we've received because the heart of the class is still there.

Would I like SE to stick to tradition? yes, but at the same time I don't mind them pulling off a re-inventive spin.

However...as for Dark Knight...well.. Honestly I'd love to hear what you have to say about Dark Knight because I do agree with you that it could have been so much more than it is, the core theme is there and the storyline fits it to a tee but it just really felt like they had samurai all planned out and then threw out their excuse of "Oh we don't want to do another far east job so soon." and then put a flimsy Dark Knight shell over it.

[Morningstar1337]

Dark Knight

I just feel like pointing out the following regarding DRK

• One DPS class alone was enough to kill the DF queues for Anything below 50.
• Expanding HP for Attacks seems counterproductive to a tank class
• Having MCH as a Tank class would have its own problems
• I think SE or the Players might be mad about Heavy DPS armor with the Inventory problems (and I mean Heavier then the Dragoon's)

For a traditional DRK to work, the class must either be a DPS class or Healer DPS must be less emphasized. The existence of Stone III, Aero III, Assize, Broil, Gravity and Malefic II proves the latter is not the case.



On a side note, People ha got to understand that XI prioritized tradition over balance, an was able to afford to because WoW wasn't a thing when the XI went out. XIV prioritized balance over tradition in the cases where both are mutually exclusive

[MagiusNecros]

However...as for Dark Knight...well.. Honestly I'd love to hear what you have to say about Dark Knight because I do agree with you that it could have been so much more than it is, the core theme is there and the storyline fits it to a tee but it just really felt like they had samurai all planned out and then threw out their excuse of "Oh we don't want to do another far east job so soon." and then put a flimsy Dark Knight shell over it.

Most of the mechanics geared toward SAM is honestly the reliance on Parry and Dark Dance being able to Dodge tank as well and Reprisal is more like a counter. It really does feel like a recycled Samurai concept. I do feel like the DADP + DADD is a total Samurai influenced thing. And plus it's conflicting with the DRK memo of get hit for more MP but you sacrifice your whole bar to not get hit essentially.

Moving on DRK wants to be the antimagic tank yet is missing a silence(hey flavor man), only has Dark Mind, is unable to parry magic attacks for extra magic mitigation to mirror PLD in the way it's shield adds extra physical mitigation to it's repertoire of defensive abilities.

The other 2 tanks are capable of boosting their self healing and their damage by a great margin in comparison to DRK who has a passive buff in Darkside and that's it, have ultimate defensive skills that aren't as taxing as Living Dead which just becomes a party drain to the point it requires either luck or precise coordination to be used well. Doesn't buff any stats in any way or give the DRK any Lifesteal just in case the healer got cooked not to mention if you have 22k they have to heal you for 22k to drop the WD status. The other tanks do not have this problem and their kit synergizes with themselves...whereas here the Dark's Kit in many cases is entirely up to RNG and your party but not yourself.

DRK can be an excellent main tank but in OT it offers little to no utility especially if you run a Monk with you. Really all you can offer is more DPS. Meanwhile a PLD has Clemency/Divine Veil and a WAR has Storm's Eye/Path. Which is really good for them.

With Dark Arts and Grit now I like the concept but Dark Arts only applies to 7 out of 22 skills. Of this stuff like Shadow Wall and 3 out of 5 HW acquired skills don't use DA at all. And Grit has one skill Souleater that has an established bonafide "grit effect". The only one mind you and it boggles my mind why there aren't more of these in general such as the defensive skills mimicking Vengeance from the WAR for a spike damage gimmick. It just seems the Grit Effect thing could have been taken so much better. And people complain about Blood Weapon being locked out of Grit and it wouldn't be as bad if Darkside didn't have a pedantic stipulation on no MP regen from outside sources to create an artificial MP management skill ceiling. Plus it makes support options of other classes gimped, yeah sure they can do something else but a little pick me up would always be appreciated. I mean a BLM has essentially infinite MP and not even they get that restriction. Like seriously?

I could write a wishlist of changes I'd love to see but it's more up to the devs to do that. So far it's lower TP costs and lower CD on DA. Baby steps but somewhere. I would love it if Blood Price was a 10 second recast that used 10% of your max HP to have you start regaining MP by things hitting you at least as a Grit effect. Since you know no Blood Weapon in Grit. And DRK would have a skill that sacrificed HP and I would be happy. BTW 10% of 22k is about 2.2k and guess how much DRK's are hitting for in Grit? Exactly. And if balance is a concern bump it to 20% sacrifice.

[ADVSS]

i love that theres at least one other person that sees drk flaws like i do, agree 100% as for blu getting implemented, im a purist at heart but a realist when it comes to making it party savvy, maybe the catch em all will work if they have no cross class skills and have 10 enemy skill slots, or maybe you just get the good skills at job quests, i could see either working out without busting the game too much honestly. but i know bad breath would have to do something like ninjas jugulate, can you imagine how broken it would be in the feast?

[Rawrz]

i love that theres at least one other person that sees drk flaws like i do, agree 100% as for blu getting implemented, im a purist at heart but a realist when it comes to making it party savvy, maybe the catch em all will work if they have no cross class skills and have 10 enemy skill slots, or maybe you just get the good skills at job quests, i could see either working out without busting the game too much honestly. but i know bad breath would have to do something like ninjas jugulate, can you imagine how broken it would be in the feast?

Have you not noticed, how when PVE skills are added, they get nerfed in PVP. SMN Dots would like to say hello and every stun that has a reduced duration.

[Lemuria]

You act like a job can't ever be reinvented to suit the game and world its in, it fits in fine with the scope of the game, you are forgetting what Summoner builds off in the first place and I do hope in future expansions the new abilities Summoner get are more orientated towards the pet, and I am quite saddened at the fact we aren't getting new egi's anytime soon with different abilities only glamours instead

Holy comma splicing, Batman!

Look, it's really simple. As any little kid with a box of shapes and holes will tell you, anything will fit as long as you press it hard enough. In fact, you pretty much said it yourself when you used the word 'reinvented'. That, by definition, means taking something and altering it to suit your ideals rather than the original concept. For myself, and many others, hacking bits off a square to make it fit into a circle hole is just not the same.

I don't know many people who consider Summoner an actual 'Summoner'. You do less summoning in this game than ever, only ever keeping a single Egi out at any time with no real reason to swap between them. And Titan is useless. Period. You can still enjoy the job that was created in it's stead, but I consider it a Summoner in the same way I consider 1-ply as toilet paper. All the ingredients are there, but used in different amounts so they don't add up the same.

as for Dark Knight...well.. Honestly I'd love to hear what you have to say about Dark Knight because I do agree with you that it could have been so much more than it is

Dark Knight feels so far removed from its original concept that it feels like more like a Dark Paladin. Again, it works and plays just fine within FFXIV, but it's not one of those jobs you can consider close to the original concept, since at its heart, Dark Knight was always about using HP to deal more damage. Always. There isn't even a single HP based skill, unlike Paladin who gets Spirits Within. While we're on the topic, Bard doesn't fit its original concept either and neither does Scholar (the latter mostly because of it's branching with Summoner), with Bard being more DPS oriented than support, and not having very many songs for either of them.

The point is, whatever concept you have of a Red Mage, a Blue Mage, a Samurai or whatever, don't expect it to be the same as you remember it. I guarantee you it will change, likely beyond recognition, all to make that square peg fit into a round hole.

[Yuni_Queen]

Most of the mechanics geared toward SAM is honestly the reliance on Parry and Dark Dance being able to Dodge tank as well and Reprisal is more like a counter. It really does feel like a recycled Samurai concept. I do feel like the DADP + DADD is a total Samurai influenced thing. And plus it's conflicting with the DRK memo of get hit for more MP but you sacrifice your whole bar to not get hit essentially.

DP feels like Samurai concept? In which youtube video, you decided to watch?
Who told you DA+DD is suppsoed to be used with BLood Price? Who told you it is not efficient? its 20% evasion rate, not 100%. On massive pulls, you will flow in mana regardless on 20% evasion or not. On small and single target you are not supposed to use this in the first place.

Moving on DRK wants to be the antimagic tank yet is missing a silence(hey flavor man), only has Dark Mind, is unable to parry magic attacks for extra magic mitigation to mirror PLD in the way it's shield adds extra physical mitigation to it's repertoire of defensive abilities.

Parry is FFXIV problem, not DRK's. Nobody said a word, that DRK is antimage concept. He has Dark Mind reducing magic dmg. And it was foolish community hype, that made an antimage out of DRK.

The other 2 tanks are capable of boosting their self healing and their damage by a great margin in comparison to DRK who has a passive buff in Darkside and that's it

DRK can use Convalescence too. DRK increases their dmg with constant buff 15% to dmg, and 10% to skill speed which is lowering recast times to 2.18 sec for me.
WAR has burst dmg, same goes to Paladin. DRK is sustained type of damage dealer, due to SAlted Earth and Scourge, which have sick huge potency themselves.

have ultimate defensive skills that aren't as taxing as Living Dead

LD is still better love story than holmgang. THere is no ultimate defense skills for current moment. There is Hallowed Ground, and Yoshi stated, that HG is a core ability for PLD. WAR core ability is Berzerk, DRK core ability is Dark Arts.

which just becomes a party drain to the point it requires either luck or precise coordination to be used well. Doesn't buff any stats in any way or give the DRK any Lifesteal just in case the healer got cooked not to mention if you have 22k they have to heal you for 22k to drop the WD status.

Noobs call it luck, others call it skill. Which part of DRK gameplay requires luck? triggering Reprisal? And what, Shield Swipe doesnt? "BUT omfg@320 Sheltron!!!111!!" but Dark Dance. 60 sec is jsut fine.
DRK has Lifesteal. Souleater. Usable in grit only, due to the fact, healing yourself with 400 potency attacks without 20% dmg penalty would make DRK at least invincible, due to greater mana income because of Blood Weapon.
10 sec is more than enough to use 3 Cure II and one cooldown. IF healer has no "oh-shit" button prepared, its fault of the healer, who didn't conserve his skills right. Pro-tip, you should use LD along with Convalesnce.

The other tanks do not have this problem and their kit synergizes with themselves...whereas here the Dark's Kit in many cases is entirely up to RNG and your party but not yourself.

Where the fuck is RNG here. For Reprisal? For Evasion during dark dance? Same goes to other tanks.

DRK can be an excellent main tank but in OT it offers little to no utility especially if you run a Monk with you.

DRK brings damage. DRK is tank, not dps to bring utility. What WAR brings to the party that is so magnificient? An axe and his deeps. Only those make you wet.
Good DRK is pumping dmg comparable to WAR with little margin of mistake to the bottom.

Really all you can offer is more DPS. Meanwhile a PLD has Clemency/Divine Veil and a WAR has Storm's Eye/Path. Which is really good for them.

And its useless if you have Ninja in party. Only paladin is real Ultility here.

With Dark Arts and Grit now I like the concept but Dark Arts only applies to 7 out of 22 skills.

Thnx god, there is no mana to buff each damn skill on the hotbar. And its better that way.

And people complain about Blood Weapon being locked out of Grit and it wouldn't be as bad if Darkside didn't have a pedantic stipulation on no MP regen from outside sources to create an artificial MP management skill ceiling.

If I could use outside sources for mp refresh, i would be doing same DMG as good DRG, outdoing every single WAR and greater part of all dps.
You are just extremely bad at MP management.

I could write a wishlist of changes I'd love to see but it's more up to the devs to do that. So far it's lower TP costs and lower CD on DA. Baby steps but somewhere. I would love it if Blood Price was a 10 second recast that used 10% of your max HP to have you start regaining MP by things hitting you at least as a Grit effect. Since you know no Blood Weapon in Grit. And DRK would have a skill that sacrificed HP and I would be happy. BTW 10% of 22k is about 2.2k and guess how much DRK's are hitting for in Grit? Exactly. And if balance is a concern bump it to 20% sacrifice.

What is this? A whining that a class is too hard? BP with 10 sec recast? Healing yourself in Grit for 2.2k three times in a row do the same trick as Clemency and unbuffed Equilibrum. DRK has self-healing over time, not burst 1200 potency.
Sacrificing HP when you clearly do not know how to play DRK? Please... Those like you are the reason tanks cannot have healer-pranking skills.

Nobody is forcing you to play the class. I am cool as it is, maybe because i can play it properly. Its so much funnier, when you know how it works.
You should try DRK out. DRK quest is in Pillars, a bit to the right of the Cathedral.
Then we can talk about DRK.

DRK looks, smells and has a moveset like a DRK.
Minor buffs or improvments are welcomed. Thats all.
[/TriggerEnd]

[Khalithar]

Other than summoning Eidolons, Summoner didn't really have any other tricks up it sleeve, with it either piggybacking off black mage or white mage, so they had to give it a kit in some form.

I would have liked the summoner in this game to function similar to the summoner in blade and soul, wherein the pet actually does most of the direct damage while the summoner provides some backup to it which includes a few dots, but also buffs and general debuffs. It also manages not to make the pet overpowered, the pet shouldn't die to stray AoE if you're keeping an eye on it but if it tries to tank a boss it will die pretty quickly, keeping it fairly well balanced in PVE. Summoner's main focus should be the things they summon, you'll never convince me otherwise. Too many MMO's have turned pets in to glorified DoTs.

[Lemuria]

Summoner's main focus should be the things they summon, you'll never convince me otherwise. Too many MMO's have turned pets in to glorified DoTs.

Please have a cookie. Go on, you deserve it.

[ADVSS]

Have you not noticed, how when PVE skills are added, they get nerfed in PVP. SMN Dots would like to say hello and every stun that has a reduced duration.

have you ever noticed how pvp skills would really be great for pve but theyre too op to allow? like all of drk set? yes i have but its pvp, and we cant even use pvp gear to be better in pvp, cause morale doesnt even really do anything and melds are unallowed outside of wolves den originals

dont mistake me for someone im not first of all i hated summoners losing res in pvp i hated cleric stance getting locked out of pvp, and i hate when they nerf altruistic skills in pvp for the sake of making a full party of dragoons happy.im not talking about pvp but id like to note that the skills involved and most preferably lets reduce darksides passive mp steall per ticl, as a notion that they are two entirely oppositte entities, pvp doesnt even accept that classes can use their full skill set cause some idiots couldnt figure out that bards had more range than holy., i mean cmon