30 Minute Lockout for Leaving Roulette's isn't Working as Intended.

[Chessala]

I really don't think so. People run from an instance they don't like. Most of the time in DF, people don't even bother to talk to each other, so it's not like they're being openly rude and make you quit a Duty.

So if people don't talk to each other, why even bother run with other people? Really, they might as well be NPCs and most likely they would play better than most people I have encountered in DF. Of course people run from instances they don't like aswell but if you openy your eyes and ears, you'll notice that a lot of people are sick and tired of constantly being forced to group.

If grouping is only a possibility then soloing will also be a possibility. And if you have the possibility to do everything solo...then people will do everything solo...
So why bother playing a MMO in the first place ?

A good MMO will still force group on you, but will make it easy to join a group. Exactly what the duty finder does.

The problem with FFXIV is that there is not even the possibility to solo. You underestimate people wanting to play with others and overestimate the need to be forced to play with others. If a game needs to force people to group, it simply means that the devs are not able to create content that wants to make you group with others. And why is that? Because the game caters to bad gameplay. It does not encourage you to improve your abilities by challenging yourself. It does not push you to develop strategies to avoid a catastrophe. And why would you improve if you can find someone that will carry you?


I'll give you an example: DDO. I recently started it again (while still playing FFXIV) and it is amazing how much the game challenges you to not just run head first into mobs but to THINK. And while a lot of normal dungeons are solo-able, there are also places where you need others in order to fulfill certain requirements. Also, of course you will need to group up for raids. I have many reasons to love FFXIV but believe me that the DF system is NOT one of them. The DF system is there because there is no possibility for people to not group up.

A truely hard dungeon requiring me to group up with people to beat it is different from a faceroll place needing me to bring people along because I can't enter the place otherwise. Why can't i by the way? Do I need 4 people to push open the door? do I need a Lala on my shoulder or the guard won't let me in? One has to wonder....

[Zojha]

Why can't i by the way? Do I need 4 people to push open the door? do I need a Lala on my shoulder or the guard won't let me in? One has to wonder....

I dunno, I can do it undersized juuust fine and while it doesn't give XP/gil/items from mobs, you still get the chests and the clear reward (newbie bonus/quest trigger/Zodiac drop). And there are several dungeons where even the gil reward is taken from the trash to the chests. I just found most dungeons to not really be beatable while they're relevant that way, you usually need several levels headstart on the dungeon to stand a chance solo.

[Chessala]

I dunno, I can do it undersized juuust fine and while it doesn't give XP/gil/items from mobs, you still get the chests and the clear reward (including newbie bonus). And there are several dungeons where even the gil reward is taken from the trash to the chests. I just found most dungeons to not really be beatable while they're relevant that way, you usually need several levels headstart on the dungeon to stand a chance solo.

Unfortunately, while unsynch was a nice addition to grind stuff for things like the relic, it isn't really usable as lvling content. This is where dungeon scaling would come in place, giving you the chance to beat the dungeon while still offering a challenge and the possibility of fun.

I am by no means advertising a solo game, mind you. I like to meet new people but I like to do it on my terms and I like the possibility to have, you know, freedom of choice. I know that's a big thing because everything SE does can't possibly be wrong and we need to be forced into groups but hey, everyone is different and as an MMO, FFXIV should have an interest in getting as many people as possible to stray in-game.

[Zojha]

This is where dungeon scaling would come in place, giving you the chance to beat the dungeon while still offering a challenge and the possibility of fun.

It's a bit more than dungeon scaling you have to do - consider that we have different roles and the mobs are designed around the trinity being in place. You'd have to balance the entire dungeon for every single job individually, otherwise you need to balance for the worst possible job and that would probably be MCH, having low damage, no self-healing, bad CC and only leather armor.

That said, I'm curious how this "dark Palace dungeon" shebumbs is gonna work out. It may be just the content you're looking for, it may be an utter disappointment. We'll see.

Either way, though, I don't think people dropping tends to have much to do with having to group in the first place. If anything, it's because of the random people you got, which that in turn is easily rectified with a premade.

[Chessala]

It's a bit more than dungeon scaling you have to do - consider that we have different roles and the mobs are designed around the trinity being in place. You'd have to balance the entire dungeon for every single job individually, otherwise you need to balance for the worst possible job and that would probably be MCH, having low damage, no self-healing, bad CC and only leather armor.

That said, I'm curious how this "dark Palace dungeon" shebumbs is gonna work out. It may be just the content you're looking for, it may be an utter disappointment. We'll see.

And this is where strategy would come in place. The problem is that our current dungeons are only meant to be played in one way. I am not saying the old dungeons can be saved as, indeed, they would need to be redesigned. But going forward, dungeon scaling and group setups without the trinity should be kept in mind.

I am hoping the Deep Dungeon concept will bring variety of content that is soloable. However, I will not get my hopes up until it is actually released and turns out to actually be interesting.

[Reynhart]

Really, they might as well be NPCs and most likely they would play better than most people I have encountered in DF.

The problem with FFXIV is that there is not even the possibility to solo.

These two sentences are really funny. You know why ? Because FFXIV gives the possbility to solo your job to max level thus some players are terrible in Duty because they never learned how to play in a group.

The game should put more focus on group play. Instead they just dumb down everything more and more so that any half competent group can clear anything while watching netflix. Even a basic strat like Steps of Faith was "too hard" just because people has to follow directions like "use the canon" or "fire the harpoon". If they can't apply some basic group strat, they really should quit MMO.

I'll give you an example: DDO. I recently started it again (while still playing FFXIV) and it is amazing how much the game challenges you to not just run head first into mobs but to THINK.

I've played DDO too, and frankly, the game's a mess when it comes to MMO philosophy. First, balance is totally non-existent. Second, you have no group structure or dynamic. The only thing that the game provides is tactical play and clever use of your environement, like any solo game can do. And since everything is an instance, there is also no sense of community out of towns.

Why can't i by the way? Do I need 4 people to push open the door? do I need a Lala on my shoulder or the guard won't let me in? One has to wonder....

Easy. Go to a dungeon with 3 friends, and ask them to leave. And when you get your ass kicked by the first pack, you'll realize why you won't clear the dungeons by yourself. But, I Wonder. If you only want to tackle content that you can clear solo, why do you even bother going in the roulettes, since you could win the same thing without any tome gear ?

[Chessala]

These two sentences are really funny. You know why ? Because FFXIV gives the possbility to solo your job to max level thus some players are terrible in Duty because they never learned how to play in a group.

The game should put more focus on group play. Instead they just dumb down everything more and more so that any half competent group can clear anything while watching netflix. Even a basic strat like Steps of Faith was "too hard" just because people has to follow directions like "use the canon" or "fire the harpoon". If they can't apply some basic group strat, they really should quit MMO.

FATES do not count. I mean actual, you know, fun content. Not spending a day in 1 map repeating the same 5-6 fates. I like running dungeons And I believe I should not have to use a trick like asking people to leave to be able to solo it.
If we get even more focus on group play we might as well create a character and be thrown into a random group the moment we log in.

People will be people and if they don't want to cooperate, they won't.

I've played DDO too, and frankly, the game's a mess when it comes to MMO philosophy. First, balance is totally non-existent. Second, you have no group structure or dynamic. The only thing that the game provides is tactical play and clever use of your environement, like any solo game can do. And since everything is an instance, there is also no sense of community out of towns.

I believe you were on the wrong server then. I can't count the times I had nice interactions with other people. I don't find a community in waiting in line to kill a mob or random people deciding they need to help me. Of course the two game have different viewpoints on how to handle the MMO factor, I find grouping when I want to perfectly fine, especially at the time when the game was still P2P.

Also, I saw nothing wrong with the balance. It is on you if you mess up your character or not. By this logic every game that lets you actually set stats as more than just a token like in FFXIV is off balance. It's not particularly great to find that in the core, all classes are the same. Customization does not have to stop with your looks. And DDO is not the only game that does this. Look at RO, look at Tree of Saviour (recently released only).

Anyway, this is my view and all I am doing is giving suggestions. I don't force my view on anyone but when I see way older games handling these things better than a game that is trying to be top-notch, then it makes me sad. We don't even have a high-resolution pack because of console limitations and that when the PS4 was anything but successful in Japan compared to the past (probably why they still cling to PS3 support).

[Reynhart]

FATES do not count. I mean actual, you know, fun content.

Call it what you want, no solo content will teach you anything on group play, so you'll end up being a bad player the first time you'll be thrown in a group duty. And if you never want to in a group duty...why do you even play an MMO ?

I believe you were on the wrong server then. I can't count the times I had nice interactions with other people.

A wrong server...because you know a server where the overworld is really opened in DDO ? Every time you're out of time, you're on your own (unless you already teamed with someone). No random passerby, no one to help you if you're in trouble, no one to give a Cure or a Raise...the world is empty.

What I don't understand is that MMO are really lacking in the story, characters and game mechanics when compared to most solo-player games so, why do people play them if they want to play full time solo ? What does the game offer to those people ?

Also, I saw nothing wrong with the balance. It is on you if you mess up your character or not.

Sorry, but "leveling a Fighter solo and getting your ass kicked in elite dungeons while a Paladin or a Cleric will faceroll the same content at the same level with the same stuff" is not "messing your character".

Suggesting penalties is not "forcing my view" on others. If SE decided to put a penalty upon leaving a Duty, it's a proof that you shouldn't do it. But, player's reaction is not "Ok, I shouldn't do it, so I won't", but "How will I be able to avoid being punished while still doing something that I shouldn't do ?". If they so obviously give the middle finger to the rules that are put in the game, I won't feel any sympathy when they come crying after that.

[Chessala]

I need to be carried - snip-

Well that is you. Other people go through the trouble of learning their characters and make builds that are able to stand up for themselves. Being self-sufficient is not supported ion FFXIV, sadly. I met plenty of fighters that kicked ass in an elite dungeon 3-5 levels above them. I believe you just don't know how to build a character without having the game giving you a fixed path (the 35 points we get are just tokens anyway)


For you, groups need to be forced because otherwise people do not learn how to play in a group. I played duo a lot on DDO and never had a problem integrating in a group. Thereason people suck in groups in DF is that they don't bother improving their abilities and the game doesn't make them improve (what for, that's why there are carries).

I repeat it once more for you: I like playing in groups and meeting people. But I also like to be on my own in the game I love. Also, I do not need a bunch of people around me constantly to know it is an MMO. The game and the way it is done will do that on it's own. Not like I ever meet alot of people on FFXIV unless I am in towns, fates or unspoiled nodes.....

Anyway, this thread is not about this and we have gone off topic enough. I close here, I made my point. If you feel the need to defend yours, go ahead.