Fracture as a Combo Finisher?

[Jpec07]

Yo I'm pretty sure Fracture is almost always a dps GAIN. Why do you say it's a dps loss? You should keep Fracture up most of the time unless you really need to keep up Path or Eye or for any other reason. It's not a big dps gain but it is one. I also think it's nice to have a gcd that's not a combo, so you can delay your rotation or something for whatever reason.

We're talking about cross class Fracture for PLD and DRK, who don't have any means to restore TP on their own, and must rely on support jobs for it, or rely on MP-cost GCDs. No one takes it because someone, somewhere did some kind of math or something to somehow prove that cross-class Fracture hurts your PPS. We've never seen this math, though, and I am not entirely sure how it works out that cross-class Fracture (18s DoT vs. WAR's 30s DoT) is a loss. If you're able to manage your TP well enough, I'd think it a very effective tool.

[Legacy_Wolfwood]

make fracture an OGCD and boom dps gain for all and its useful

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I think Fracture should be an Off-GCD attack with a cooldown honestly.

Yes- its a DPS gain on Paper; except it doesn't make a Wrath Stack; so as soon as you get Fell Cleave its pointless. It also a lot of the time does not go full duration.

Mercy Stroke should heal even if it doesn't kill the target.

Sole Survivor needs to be changed; period.

Scourge is amazing; but ... eh... I just hate using it; it always feels more like a chore because instead of watching the fights your watching combos and numbers lol

[Khalithar]

Snip

And anyone else in this thread will find this useful to, I had talked about this in another thread, but didn't remember until now:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3327021

Fracture as a Cross Class:

Fracture does 220 potency of damage provided it ticks its full duration. Below level 60, this is a DPS increase over just spamming the Rage of Halone combo (which averages 203 potency across its 3 GCDs). However, once you get to 60 and get the Royal Authority Combo, Fracture becomes almost completely useless. Royal Authority combo has a 230 potency average, and Goring Blade combo has even higher. Therefore, Fracture is almost always a DPS loss to use. People will try and convince you that it's a DPS increase to use as the last move before Fight or Flight falls off, or as a filler so you don't clip Goring Blade's DoT... but it isnt. The math shows that in a straight fight where you're just tunnelling DPS onto a target, Fracture is always a DPS loss, and also a huge TP loss.

The one situation where Fracture can be a DPS increase is when you have to leave a target (as Khalithar says, like in Alex 1 where you're DPSing the main boss for a while and then have to go pick up the second). However it's ONLY a dps increase in this situation if you have to leave the target 1 gcd after you finish a combo. Eg, if you finish a Royal Authority, and have 1 second before you need to move, a Fracture would be better than doing a Fast Blade. But if you've already done a fast blade and need to move, doing a Riotblade would be better. Also, all ticks of Fracture have to do damage to make it worth ticking, so it doesnt work to throw it on the Alex Oppressors before they leap away as they go invulnerable. Also, if you are able to return to DPSing before your combo times out, a Fast Blade would have been better (eg, Fast Blade Oppressor 1, turn and run to Oppressor 0.5 and do a Riot -> Goring before it times out, would be higher overall DPS than Fracture on 1 and starting fresh with fast blade on the second).

All in all, the situations where Fracture result in a DPS increase are so horrendously small that I recommend not taking it - you'll be too inclined to press it -thinking- you'll get a DPS increase when in 95% of situations you'll end up doing less DPS AND nerfing your already starved TP. I now actually take Protect as my fifth cross class so I can speed up buffing before a pull, help buff ressed people to save healer mana in awkward situations, and keep myself buffed when soloing or working in small groups without a healer - though this is just as niche as taking Fracture really, so you might just want to keep Fracture on your bars for doing downsynched 50 content.

[StouterTaru]

Fracture's inherent problem is not producing a wrath stack yet still being on the GCD. There's always a better option to utilize than Fracture.

That wrath stack won't make up for the gain of Fracture in the dps department. It does give you 1/5 of an Inner Beast and the mitigation/HP gain that comes with it, as well as saving you some TP if that's an issue with your group.

In deliverance, WAR rotation is under 250 potency/GCD outside Berserk, fracture is 300. With Berserk up, Fracture is an even bigger dps boost if it doesn't cost you a Berserk FC.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

That wrath stack won't make up for the gain of Fracture in the dps department. It does give you 1/5 of an Inner Beast and the mitigation/HP gain that comes with it, as well as saving you some TP if that's an issue with your group.

In deliverance, WAR rotation is under 250 potency/GCD outside Berserk, fracture is 300. With Berserk up, Fracture is an even bigger dps boost if it doesn't cost you a Berserk FC.

Its not really a DPS Gain.
Its a loss of TP.
Its a loss of Enmity Gain.
Its a loss of a Wrath Stack.

Its pretty much a lose-lose situation; should be remade to be OGCD.

[Shurrikhan]

I've seen this thrown around a bunch, and it has me slightly confused; since cross-class Fracture is a 220-potency attack (100+20*6), doesn't that put it slightly above the PLD average Potency-per-GCD? If they never clip it, then, doesn't it represent a DPS gain? Or does this expression factor in TP cost?

Not sure for DRK, but here's the gist for PLD:

Royal Authority combo averages 233.33, and Riot Blade averages 340 if it gets every tick or 323.33 if one tick short. Cutting into the potential of either is therefore a dps loss. However, if Fracture maximizes GB, such as if running at a 2.4 GCD where a GB takes 10 GCDs instead of 9.6, it may be a dps increase, but is still hardly worth the TP loss. It is worth less still with Slashing up, as the added tick is not affected, nor is 55% of Fracture. (Note that this has a small chance of being late a server DoT tick with even the slightest error at a 2.4 GCD, and will almost certainly be compensated for by skipping the Fracture, which actually then leads to even worse clipping (potentially 2 ticks or 100 pot) than at a 2.5 GCD. Skill Speed sucks.)

Even then, though, it depends on whether you look at any given test segment as potential damage or damage actually dealt in that particular time, as it can otherwise be further reduced by DoT ticks that hadn't yet occurred within the test window.

Potential Damage:

Over the course of 86.4s, or 12 combos at 2.4, each starting at the Riot Blade application:
Clipping: 970+700+700+970+700+700+970+700+700+970+700+700 -> 4 clipped-GB, 8 RA -> 9480
Full GB: 1020+220+700+700+1020+220+700+700+1020+220+700+700+1020+700 -> 3 Fractures, 4 full-GB, 7 RA -> 9640 (1.7% gain)

With slashing: (GB 970/1020 -> 1032/1082, RA 700 -> 770, Fracture 220 -> 230)
Clipping: 9480 -> 4128+6160 -> 10288
Full GB: 9640 -> 690+5390+4328 -> 10408 (1.2% gain)

Actual damage:

Same, but whereas the clipped GB has run its full course, the final full GB will be short 2 to 3 ticks, as there is not time for them to tick in this test window (short 3 GCDs, or having only 16.8s to tick). The total value of the each test would then be further reduced by 100 to 150, to as low as a .3% dps loss with slashing, and a mere 10 potency out of 9480 over the clipped series. In the end, the two are so close that the primary determiner is whether in each case the enemy will die within the last (or second to last) tick of GB. For sake of format:
Clipping: 9480 or 10288
Full GB: 9490-9540 or 10258-10308 (-.3% to .6% gain)

(This is going to be less than the dps loss for having gone with that much Skill Speed, which very little effect on the DoTs, no effect on your up to 30 pps of oGCDs, on AAs, or on Sword Oath.)

tldr; for PLD, Fracture is not worth using. (Weaponskill) Shield Swipe, at only 10 potency less but half the TP cost was already worth using primarily for its enmity and TP conservation. Fracture is a loss to both.

general tldr: the higher your job potencies / the lower your damage modifiers, the shittier cross-class skills will be.

Food for thought: if Fracture was even just 5 more DoT potency (20->25), at 10 more TP, it's pot/TP would be nearly identical, but it would be much more worth using. However, the only ones who would really rejoice would be TP-burn Monks. It's already a dps gain for Warrior, but it would finally become one for others as well, and its relative WAR opportunity cost would be reduced. May the others' TP rest in peace, though.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

If it was an OCD it would be a DPS gain for everybody.

[Shurrikhan]

If it was an OCD it would be a DPS gain for everybody.

Why would we want an obligatory dps gain for everyone though? For fewer options, more TP cost, and more dps inflation?

[Syzygian]

DRK's average potency per GCD is (500+(150+250+400+150+250+280)*2) / 13 = about 266. So Fracture is a 100% loss in every scenario, forever and ever, amen.

Wait, hang on a sec...

Are we still not clear as a tanking community on the fact that Fracture is BAD on a tank not named WAR, where even then it is only circumstantially useful?

I don't mean to sound brash but come on now. This topic is as old as the ground and its always a crapton of TLDR math to illustrate what a piddly skill Fracture is and confirm for the 99999th time that its not worth using on a PLD or DRK.