[spoilers]3.2 MSQ Discussion/Reaction thread

[Fenral]

Yeah, I'm siding with the goddess on this one.

Okay. Please die. It's for the greater good, and your sacrifice will inspire the others to carry on in your place. Actually, may need Y'shtola and Thancred while we're at it. Still a smaller sacrifice than the death toll that will occur if the Ascians win, so no problem, right?

Hydaelyn ate Minfilia. She didn't stop to ask us, we didn't even know she needed someone as her voice until she had already made her pick. And now Minfilia's gone, just like that, because it was necessary. Forgive me for not being comfortable with that on principle.

I'm not suddenly switching sides, or killing civilians, or eating babies by the dozen to keep my friends alive at the cost of all else. I just want a chance to talk things out properly with the people I'm supposed to be killing. I just want to be able to protect the world knowing the people I choose to fight for will still be in it when I'm done.

[Alisa180]

Okay. Please die. It's for the greater good, and your sacrifice will inspire the others to carry on in your place. Actually, may need Y'shtola and Thancred while we're at it. Still a smaller sacrifice than the death toll that will occur if the Ascians win, so no problem, right?

Hydaelyn ate Minfilia. She didn't stop to ask us, we didn't even know she needed someone as her voice until she had already made her pick. And now Minfilia's gone, just like that, because it was necessary. Forgive me for not being comfortable with that on principle.

I'm not suddenly switching sides, or killing civilians, or eating babies by the dozen to keep my friends alive at the cost of all else. I just want a chance to talk things out properly with the people I'm supposed to be killing. I just want to be able to protect the world knowing the people I choose to fight for will still be in it when I'm done.

Sure, we talk things out with Ascians, and they inform us what we already know: That they need to kill countless people and wreak cataclysmic (literally) havoc in order to initiate the Rejoining. We have been given literally no reason to believe their eventual goal is anything less. Or that there is any other way to achieve what they want. So the people you fight for are likely going to be dead anyway.

And Minfilia isn't dead. I'm fairly sure of this. She's just become part of Hydaelyn for the time being, because the Mothercrystal is now so weak that she can't even communicate with us properly. There some strong hints, notably Tataru's dialogue, that Minfilia will eventually be released from service. It's also stated that Minfilia more or less chose this path. After all, it's been shown that she's deeply spiritual and highly devoted to the Mothercrystal. Most people like that will very willingly give themselves up to help their deity, especially if the life of the latter depended on it. Doubly so if they are not actually dying. Hm, I'm not really articulating my point well here...

[Kallera]

In the face of perceived oblivion, you can justify about anything, it seems. At any rate, I am seeing it more and more likely for some of the Scions to justify act that they would have once called others out for, almost in the vein of FFVIIs AVALANCHE. I hope we don't fall into it ourselves, since we're holding to the idea that Minfillia's vision was, and should be, more than that.

[Soul_Mythrim]

On a completely separate topic

Did we seriously just pull a Nanamo? You'd think the WOL would be suspicious of drinks given to them by a kindly maid at this point

[Theodric]

The WoL can't really afford to be suspicious of every single person that they encounter though.

[Morningstar1337]

Another quick note, Aymeric technically has 'quest immunity', due to a certain culinary leve...So I'm about 85% he's not going to die.

There is also the fact that he is in the Allience representing Ishgard, which would be a might higher amount of plot armor, especially if an Ishgardian grand company happens (And it's unlikely that Lolorito's machinations would affect that, though there is other sources of corruption)

[Theodric]

Well...given that a major criticism of the ending of 2.0 was the amount of plot armour protecting major characters I'd like to think that the developers have taken it on board and won't just grant characters immunity to death just because they're tied to certain quests. Otherwise it's just going to become very predictable as to who will perish and who may end up living through everything. 4.0 is also supposedly going to be completely separate from 3.0 so it's very likely that many characters from 3.0 won't show up at all.

[Alisa180]

4.0 is also supposedly going to be completely separate from 3.0 so it's very likely that many characters from 3.0 won't show up at all.

I keep hearing this. What I've heard is that the 3.x quests just won't be required to reach 4.0 content, but there's going to be a 'Digest Mode' so you can read about what happened in HW and 2.x. In other words, 4.0 will still be a continuation of 3.x's story, you just won't have to experience said story to reach the new content

[Nalien]

I don't think Hydaelyn wanted us to contact Her directly like that, even if only out of love and worry for us.

She wanted us there. This whole thing was set up to tell us what she told us, she knew full well that we'd eventually coming looking for Minifilia ("Though time and space hast thou journeyed unto me... as I knew thou wouldst."), that's why she had Minfilia get caught up in Flow. It's why Krile was saved, so we had someone talented enough to help us get there.

Nothing in the cutscene implied she was surprised to see us, rather she was expecting us... Heck, we were in Antitower when she called out to us, we didn't barge in, we battled our way to the "shore" of the aetherial sea, close enough that she could draw us in for a little chat, and then she sent us back.

I get that sacrificing Minfilia is bad, but what were the alternatives? Do nothing and let Elidibus have free reign to give His account of events? I don't actually see a good alternative here, I'm certainly not looking upon Hydaelyn with doubt now... All this has done is hammer home than she's at the end of her rope... Weak... Desperate... I'm certainly not looking at past events and questioning her now... It comes pretty close to victim blaming... Instead of thinking "Why did she only save Krile?" one should be thinking "Why did Nabriales nuke Val?". That is what we're dealing with her... An organization which ruthlessly nuked an entire island and a deity that could barely save one person (Krile was knocked out for how long exactly?). Hydaelyn sacrificing Minfilia is an act of sheer desperation, there is no indication that this is the norm for Hydaelyn, nor any indication that she wants us to bring her more orphans to eat. This was a regrettable, one time thing... Hydaelyn isn't suddenly some shady deity for this transgression...

[CyrilLucifer]

Hmm, if that's what she said, that's my mistake. I admit to watching the scenes at about 4am.

However, I do have to side with Fenral on the reason why. She seemed to want to guide us in the direction of banishing darkness. I believe how vague she was is the same thing as the short Echo scene with the WoDs from 3.1. It's SE leaking knowledge to the player slowly, teasing us with tidbits, but only just enough so that the universe's secrets aren't all revealed at once. And it comes off badly.

I'm actually wondering how this scene is intended to be interpreted, because I don't know if we're "supposed" to view it as a good thing to blindly follow your Goddess when she uses your friend as a mouthpiece, simply because she's your Goddess and "desperate."

Also, I'm of mind that it doesn't matter if Minfilia is alive, Hydaelyn did what Hydaelyn did, it can't really be defended. Do you know who is also alive?

Roundrox. And she's being literally mind raped upon the Illuminati's will. Are we going to suddenly forgive the Illuminati for that, even if they turn around and decide to shut down Alexander because we ask nicely?

It shocks me that anyone can even think Minfilia being alive makes Hydaelyn's actions suddenly "okay."

Edit: Referring mostly to Alisa with this.