More gender locked gear.

[Aldora]

I agree with Canadane here. There is nothing wrong with gender locked gear and when i checked out the Lodestone Database. It appeared that they forgot to include Expeditioner's Gloves for males, or that they might have made a mistake making the gloves gender specific.

If that was the case, then i’d be sure they would fix it through a patch or a hotfix. But, then i remembered that i saw the Expeditioner's Set within one of the recent trailers.



As you can see here, the Expeditioner's Set for male characters doesn’t appear to have gloves in the first place. So, by looking at it from that aspect, it’s not like they forgot the gloves for the set, but rather the set didn’t include gloves for males.

You could say that the set that’s currently available is not a mistake, but “by design”.

[Serilda]

As you can see here, the Expeditioner's Set for male characters doesn’t appear to have gloves in the first place. So, by looking at it from that aspect, it’s not like they forgot the gloves for the set, but rather the set didn’t include gloves for males.

You could say that the set that’s currently available is not a mistake, but “by design”.

Shouldn't we get to decide that? The 'no glove' effect is accessible by players with female characters too, yet we only have one option and two fewer glamour items to add to the huge backlog of female-biased glamour options already in the game. I maintain that there should be a warning on character creation that male characters will be much more limited with glamour later in the game so that new players aren't under the false impression that the design team are going to be treating them fairly.

[Aldora]

Shouldn't we get to decide that?

Aren’t we already? I mean, we get to decide how we want to dress ourselves by using the Glamour system. So, if you want to wear gloves with that set, why wouldn’t you simply wear the ones you’d like with that set?

That doesn’t change the fact that in this case, the design of the male version of the Expeditioner's Set did not include any gloves. However, you are free to wear gloves if you want to. It’s not that the game doesn’t have a small assortment of gloves to choose from.

The 'no glove' effect is accessible by players with female characters too, yet we only have one option and two fewer glamour items to add to the huge backlog of female-biased glamour options already in the game.

I’m sorry, that’s an opinion i don’t share.

I’ve read a few of your posts where you point out that female characters have more options to choose from and i don’t deny that. What i don’t share is the opinion that there is a “huge backlog of female-biased glamour options”. I know you will not agree with me on this, which is fine, but when looking at the amount of clothing options the game has, the amount of “female-biased glamour options” aren’t as huge as you make them to be.

But, like i said. That’s my opinion.

I maintain that there should be a warning on character creation that male characters will be much more limited with glamour later in the game so that new players aren't under the false impression that the design team are going to be treating them fairly.

Why should there be a warning on the character creation that male characters will be limited on the glamour items? I’m fairly sure that most of the male characters in the game don’t really care much about gender specific clothing. They go through the list of items they can wear and pick what they think fits their character most.

There will always be gender specific gear. What Zhexos said back then, was that they team would introduce more male specific gear to the game. Here you have a Expeditioner's Set, which has a version which is exclusive for each gender.

However, it’s still up to the FFXIV team how they will design each individual set. It’s up to the players how they would be using the set, by mixing and matching their outfit based on the available glamours.

The item you want to glamour isn’t available? There’s no harm in requesting it. But, requesting that they need to add a warning to the character creation that either gender is “limited in their options” is (pardon my english) a bit sad.

[Serilda]

Aren’t we already? I mean, we get to decide how we want to dress ourselves by using the Glamour system. So, if you want to wear gloves with that set, why wouldn’t you simply wear the ones you’d like with that set?

And if the ones I want are the matching ones that were designed for use with that set, and there's no fundamental difference between a man's hands and a woman's, why are we being locked out for no reason? There's no male-only equivalent to these gloves. I will freely admit that gloves aren't the be-all and end-all of my fashion choices, but almost every major patch since 2.2 has added gender-locked items in a ratio which favours players with female characters. The vast majority of these items aren't especially feminine in the slightest, and the community team has repeatedly acknowledged the imbalance and passed our wishes on to the design team. Yet it keeps happening - and in a way which is so ridiculous I'd take it for parody if I didn't know better.

I’ve read a few of your posts where you point out that female characters have more options to choose from and i don’t deny that. What i don’t share is the opinion that there is a “huge backlog of female-biased glamour options”. I know you will not agree with me on this, which is fine, but when looking at the amount of clothing options the game has, the amount of “female-biased glamour options” aren’t as huge as you make them to be.

You're entitled to your opinion but I respectfully strongly disagree. We're up to 23 items more for players with female characters, which isn't a huge amount if you consider every item in the game but it's a large amount when you consider we pay the same subscription fees and that all of these items are specifically for glamour, not just arbitrary low level dungeon sets. When the gap keeps growing in one direction with each new batch of glamour items, it doesn't take a great deal of paranoia to read the writing on the wall. Especially when it's just a pair of gloves (two, actually) and female characters effectively have access to both the 'female version' and the 'male version' of the sets. If this was about integrity of design, the female players would have no gloves either and their version of the top would automatically cover the hands.

Why should there be a warning on the character creation that male characters will be limited on the glamour items? I’m fairly sure that most of the male characters in the game don’t really care much about gender specific clothing. They go through the list of items they can wear and pick what they think fits their character most.

Because they charge money to change gender (and in cases like mine, a name change would also be needed if I did; I'm not going to). The preferential treatment for female characters began in 2.2, and they keep sending messages implying that it will be addressed - yet it isn't, and in fact they just keep making it worse. If this is an actual policy then it's only fair to communicate it; nobody knows that aesthetic choices made in character creation actually limit your access to the same treatment later on. To you it's not important that we don't get to be excited about as many new glamour sets per patch. Others have a different outlook.

There will always be gender specific gear. What Zhexos said back then, was that they team would introduce more male specific gear to the game. Here you have a Expeditioner's Set, which has a version which is exclusive for each gender.

Sorry, are we supposed to be happy about being treated not quite as badly as we could have been?

[Aldora]

And if the ones I want are the matching ones that were designed for use with that set, and there's no fundamental difference between a man's hands and a woman's, why are we being locked out for no reason?

But, that’s just the thing. Those gloves were designed for the female version Expeditioner's Set, which looks different from its male counterpart. They share the same name,“feel” and theme, but the design for the male and female version aren’t the same.
From my perspective, they could’ve added “Fingerless Gloves” or “Ringbands” to match the overall look of the male set, but the FFXIV team went for a set without gloves. That is still their decision.

There's no male-only equivalent to these gloves. I will freely admit that gloves aren't the be-all and end-all of my fashion choices, but almost every major patch since 2.2 has added gender-locked items in a ratio which favours players with female characters. The vast majority of these items aren't especially feminine in the slightest, and the community team has repeatedly acknowledged the imbalance and passed our wishes on to the design team. Yet it keeps happening - and in a way which is so ridiculous I'd take it for parody if I didn't know better.

And the Expeditioner's Set is the first set which has a gender specific version for both genders. This is proof that they are listening to the voices of the community, but make no mistake, if they feel that a certain outfit is only meant for males/females to wear, then they are in their right to place such a restriction on it.

Up until now, that meant that certain sets were designed so that only females were allowed to wear it and should respect their decision on it. Like i said in my previous comment, there is no harm in requesting certain glamours for the opposite gender. But, if the FFXIV teams that it does not suit a male character, then so be it.

You're entitled to your opinion but I respectfully strongly disagree. We're up to 23 items more for players with female characters, which isn't a huge amount if you consider every item in the game but it's a large amount when you consider we pay the same subscription fees and that all of these items are specifically for glamour, not just arbitrary low level dungeon sets. When the gap keeps growing in one direction with each new batch of glamour items, it doesn't take a great deal of paranoia to read the writing on the wall. Especially when it's just a pair of gloves (two, actually) and female characters effectively have access to both the 'female version' and the 'male version' of the sets.

If this was about integrity of design, the female players would have no gloves either and their version of the top would automatically cover the hands.

Why? Because their male counterparts didn’t have any gloves added to their design? Then what about the rest of the set? The coat of the male version looks more ragged/tattered than the female version, which looks more smooth and clean tabard. The female version has thighboots which the male version has Moccasins.

There are fundamental differences between the two sets, but still share the same theme.

The design integrity doesn’t mean that the outfit of both genders need to consist out of the same amount parts. All of the parts of the design need to relate to each other as well as the whole design. If the FFXIV teams felt that the design of the male Expeditioner's Set worked better without gloves and because of that didn’t make any for the male set, who are we to say that they are wrong because the female version does in fact include gloves (or the other way around)?

Next to that, If you look at the Expeditioner's Tabard they actually do cover the hands (partially). You can make it look even more different if you wear long gloves/gauntles, like the
“Eikon Leather Armguards of Striking” which will cover more the lower part of the arm on one side, while leaving it open on the other.

The Glamour system allows you to change the look and feel of the gear you are wearing, just by trying out different combinations.

Because they charge money to change gender (and in cases like mine, a name change would also be needed if I did; I'm not going to). The preferential treatment for female characters began in 2.2, and they keep sending messages implying that it will be addressed - yet it isn't, and in fact they just keep making it worse. If this is an actual policy then it's only fair to communicate it; nobody knows that aesthetic choices made in character creation actually limit your access to the same treatment later on. To you it's not important that we don't get to be excited about as many new glamour sets per patch. Others have a different outlook.

Sorry, are we supposed to be happy about being treated not quite as badly as we could have been?

Ow, come on… You are not being treated “badly”. Not by a long shot.

From what i’ve read, it’s not really the issue that men can’t wear certain gear (like the Thavnarian Dress or the Bunny ears). But, the main reason is that there is gear present in the game, where there is no equivalent for the opposite sex. It doesn’t matter how much.

Right now, according to your message above, there are 23 items which are exclusive to females, where there’s no equivalent male characters. 23. How many outfits are we talking about? 4 and a half? For every item that exists within the game that is only available for 1 specific gender, there will be someone complaining that it is unfair to them.

Let me ask you this very bluntly: What are we? Little children complaining that “she has more toys than i do”? Do we really need to split every single gummybear so that everyone has the same amount of candy?

There will always be things exclusive to others, be it items in seasonal events that you might have missed, clothing that is only available for a certain gender, items you can only obtain by working your ass off in order to get it (both through skill and sheer effort/time spent).

You are absolutely right that i don’t really care about gender exclusive items (and not because my character is apparently a female Miq’ote). And i don’t really get excited about most of the glamour items they introduce for that matter.

But, what i do care about is people believe that they are being treated unfairly because of silly things like this. And yes, complaining about a “missing” glove and believing that new players should be warned that male characters will be “limited in their choice of wardrobe” because we are paying the same subscription fee, is silly.

[Serilda]

But, that’s just the thing. Those gloves were designed for the female version Expeditioner's Set, which looks different from its male counterpart. They share the same name,“feel” and theme, but the design for the male and female version aren’t the same.
From my perspective, they could’ve added “Fingerless Gloves” or “Ringbands” to match the overall look of the male set, but the FFXIV team went for a set without gloves. That is still their decision.

Right, and it's one they keep making in a way which arbitrarily favours half of their user base. I can believe that it was their artistic decision and it just happened to be that way - once or twice. Not every time. This isn't a decision which happened in a vacuum but rather one which was made in the full knowledge that players with male characters from the US to Japan were upset that they weren't getting as many glamour items to choose from, an issue which numerous community reps have responded on several times.

And the Expeditioner's Set is the first set which has a gender specific version for both genders. This is proof that they are listening to the voices of the community, but make no mistake, if they feel that a certain outfit is only meant for males/females to wear, then they are in their right to place such a restriction on it.

I'm not sure that's true so perhaps I've misunderstood? There are numerous sets of gear which have separate male and female versions, even though it's the unisex and female ones we complain about. I very much like the High House Justaucorps in the previous patch, for example, and while it meant I couldn't wear the Bustle you'll find no complaints on the forum about it from me. Because it was fair.

It would make considerably more sense for the sake of inventory management and fantasia addicts to have them as the same item with different appearances when equipped (like most of the older unisex gear) but I don't have a problem with gear having different appearances on different models if that's how the design team want to do things.

The design integrity doesn’t mean that the outfit of both genders need to consist out of the same amount parts. All of the parts of the design need to relate to each other as well as the whole design. If the FFXIV teams felt that the design of the male Expeditioner's Set worked better without gloves and because of that didn’t make any for the male set, who are we to say that they are wrong because the female version does in fact include gloves (or the other way around)?

I'd still prefer to make the decision about gloves/no gloves myself, and I believe the design team generally supports this (going as far to offer the whole /visor feature to allow for individual variations on a theme). Female characters can make that call, and decide whether their version looks best with the matched gloves, another type or barehanded. Male characters don't get the first choice. Even if the gloves blatantly didn't match, it would have been a nice touch to add them in anyway as another item with a different name for males - perhaps they'd match another glamour idea someone has set their heart on?

From what i’ve read, it’s not really the issue that men can’t wear certain gear (like the Thavnarian Dress or the Bunny ears). But, the main reason is that there is gear present in the game, where there is no equivalent for the opposite sex. It doesn’t matter how much.

The two are intrinsically linked to me. I do honestly want the bunny gear most of all, but in principle when you're coming up with ideas it's more fun to work with more options at your fingertips than it is with less. The sets which are locked happen to be some of the absolute most popular glamour items in the entire game (source: the last census) - and anecdotally I can't go anywhere in a crowd without seeing bunnies and Thavnairian pieces equipped on other players. Obviously in this case it's just gloves, but how many times do we have to feel as though players with female characters get special treatment? Those gloves might be the only piece which fit some themes (indeed, I hope they are otherwise there wasn't a great deal of point in them being made in the first place).

Let me ask you this very bluntly: What are we? Little children complaining that “she has more toys than i do”? Do we really need to split every single gummybear so that everyone has the same amount of candy?

There will always be things exclusive to others, be it items in seasonal events that you might have missed, clothing that is only available for a certain gender, items you can only obtain by working your ass off in order to get it (both through skill and sheer effort/time spent).

You are absolutely right that i don’t really care about gender exclusive items (and not because my character is apparently a female Miq’ote). And i don’t really get excited about most of the glamour items they introduce for that matter.

But, what i do care about is people believe that they are being treated unfairly because of silly things like this. And yes, complaining about a “missing” glove and believing that new players should be warned that male characters will be “limited in their choice of wardrobe” because we are paying the same subscription fee, is silly.

Well yes, it's silly. Glamour is silly. Fantasy videogames are silly. There are far more important things to worry about in the real world no matter how you slice it. I'm standing up for something I care about in the full knowledge that it's completely ridiculous in the wider context of world we live in. 99% of the threads on this forum fit this description in some way. And while I appreciate that you're putting so much thought into this debate, I'm afraid that it is weaker to argue from the position of being in the advantaged group and freely admitting that you're not deeply interested in glamour. I'm not interested in DRG rotations so I'd expect to meet some resistance if I tried to tell them that they don't really matter in a thread devoted to that topic.

I will grant that my suggestion of adding a warning to the character selection screen is ridiculous, but in principle the alternative is supporting the company profiting (in the form of name changes and fantasia sales) from a system where players are encouraged to pick whichever options they like during character creation only to find that the treatment differs later on. I don't think that's fair. Obviously I don't actually want them to put a warning on the character creation screen at all - I actually want equal treatment with glamours - but if so much time can pass with this kind of thing continuing to crop up then I think that's an equally silly alternative to the current status quo. And it doesn't financially reward a company for overlooking this irritating situation time after time.