Why should warriors get a free pass to all savage content?

[Kuwagami]

I'm pretty sure people would fine very funny that you'd need to adjust multiple jobs to be able to take down WAR from its mandatory spot

Actually it's not. Group balance is a tricky thing that does not rely on a single job's utility/performance but on synergy. Trading multiple jobs to get the most of your group is the basis (look the MCH/3melees comp vs bard + caster(s) ). Of course, this is only optimization and does not matter one bit once you overgear a content, or in mechanics driven fights.

with that said

The problem lies with the world first race.(

world first race is a special thing as you'll want to rush phases as fast as possible, ignore healing as much as possible to get more dps, etc... with world first in mind, you NEED to optimize the dps, and if that means ignoring X or Y job because they just can't push the numbers enough, then you'll ignore X or Y job. Once world first is done though, everything comes back to "what you are comfortable with", except for the idiots.

[Phoenicia]

except for the idiots.

Highlighted the keyword.

However, it is human nature that if there is a more efficient way, even if it is just a feeling, they will take it. And PLD+DRK is just not efficient.

[Reynhart]

Actually it's not. Group balance is a tricky thing that does not rely on a single job's utility/performance but on synergy.

That's why those PLD buffs, although appreciated, are probably not enough. They keep adjusting PLD to be able to compete on its own (DPS wise, since everything revolves around DPS), whereas they should push it in a totally different direction. And DRK too.

Once world first is done though, everything comes back to "what you are comfortable with", except for the idiots.

Saddly, it still didn't come back to that. It's the first time we have more tanks than required by party setup, so it's understandable that it didn't occur until 3.0.

If they add another tank in 4.0, I'm pretty sure two of them will be seen as black sheep.

However, it is human nature that if there is a more efficient way, even if it is just a feeling, they will take it.

Another highlighted keyword.
It kept WAR out of MT spot for all 2.x, even though its toolkit was already very powerful (barring 2.0), just because healers felt that WAR was squishier...and in fact, raid DPS was higher with WAR MT/PLD OT back then.

[FallenWings]

Unfortunately nothing the other two tanks or their allowed compositions can replace Storm's Path. It's just too good.

[Kuwagami]

Unfortunately nothing the other two tanks or their allowed compositions can replace Storm's Path. It's just too good.

storm's what ? /sarcasm

I never had to use it in all of the 3.0-3.1 patches, except when I was soloing things (or no healer in unsych, cuz you know, no heals mean you have to rely on every little bit of self healing you have)

-10% damage sounds fine like that, but when there is no real reason to use it, it's just a low potency move that's better replaced by butcher's block.

Devs had to design encounters where a PLD/DRK comp was possible, thus storm's path isn't necessary anywhere. And considering the amount of damage taken in any duty (except AS3 last phase and AS4 that I have yet to test), it's more a waste of potency than a real utility tool. Not like in 2.4 where it was absolutely needed for the early T11, T12 and T13 clears

That's why those PLD buffs, although appreciated, are probably not enough. They keep adjusting PLD to be able to compete on its own (DPS wise, since everything revolves around DPS), whereas they should push it in a totally different direction. And DRK too.

PLD has HG (ignore everything for 10 seconds) which is godlike to ignore some mechanics, and/or gain some healer dps/heals following a failed mechanic, etc.. The only real reason PLD was shuned in Gordias savage was their DPS, which is why it got improved for 3.2.

With that said, it won't fix many of the issues PLD has (lack of synergy, TP starved), or the DRK for that matters (close to no OT utility)

[Reynhart]

PLD has HG (ignore everything for 10 seconds) which is godlike to ignore some mechanics, and/or gain some healer dps/heals following a failed mechanic, etc...

Which is frequently negated by the fact that you have to use it in your rotation.
In A1S, DRK and WAR can stack enough mitigation for every Plasma without spending their ultimate skill. As a PLD, you have to use HG at some point, so you don't really "ignore" the mechanic, you just mitigates it more...while the two other tanks mitigate already enough.

Of course, it would be different against a physical buster, let's hope for Midas...and weep in advance for all DRKs out there

The good thing, though, is that I play DRK on my main, and PLD on my alt...so I'm only half screwed every patch

[Alphras]

Unfortunately nothing the other two tanks or their allowed compositions can replace Storm's Path. It's just too good.

Except that Storm's Path wasn't necessary anywhere in this whole raid tier (except maybe A3 6er splash first week). The skill sounds really op on paper, but in reality it is merely nice to have and mostly forgone in favor of more dps.

The real issue lies in Storm's Eye and that could be fixed by giving Ninja a reason to use Dancing Edge in an optimal dps rotation (as Reynhart already said).

[Starbirth]

It kept WAR out of MT spot for all 2.x, even though its toolkit was already very powerful (barring 2.0), just because healers felt that WAR was squishier...and in fact, raid DPS was higher with WAR MT/PLD OT back then.

My static actually had WAR MT and PLD OT in First Coil. The shift never happened until T8. After that it just stuck

[Valkyrie-Amber]

Unfortunately nothing the other two tanks or their allowed compositions can replace Storm's Path. It's just too good.

and that is my point which 3 tank classes but always wars are takeing cause best always needed utilitys. the other two tanks drk and pld are crying nerf eachother to atleast make one of them prefered.

origionally sav alex first clears were war/war or war/drk no pld in sight. now reading 3.2 preliminary notes drk may lose its prefered second spot. So I say nerf war to make all party compositions viable.

[Jpec07]

Because they prayed really hard to Fell Cleavus, and he answered.

Wouldn't think Warriors to be the religious type, but that's the truth of it.



...in actuality, at what SE deems "appropriate" gear levels for this content, it would not surprise me if PLD/DRK actually can be done. The problem is that combination will literally hold the rest of the group back performance wise, and requires a suboptimally-playing NIN (to maintain the Slashing debuff) to be viable. So the rest of the group has to work a lot harder to make up the difference.

Honestly (and I realize I'm going to get hate for this), WAR needs to be nerfed. Replace the 10% damage down with a 5% damage down, take away their slashing debuff (possibly just remove it from the game, since only WAR/DRK/PLD/NIN/SMR rely on it), and nerf their DPS to more reasonable levels, and the problem will be largely fixed.