People selling runs, why not talking about it ?

[Kuwagami]

It violates Competition Law. ^^;

There is no competition law in a game.

[wicked-one]

As i see it, it´s no regulated Market, People can pay and offer on the demand.

Report undercutters? Jeah, go ahead, i´ll laughing my ass of.

Killselling is ... well ... let´s call it "user generated content" - there are no rules, laws or regulations in place, a gentleman´s agreement at max...
so there is nothing to violate what a GM would be concerned of.

It´s the virtual equivalent of a weird kid which whom you didn´t want to play back in the days, which ran of to their mommies to force you to like them.

/edit/PS: Undercutting is a concern? People on Shiva even charged nothing for carries, as 3.15 hitted, they pulled whole bulks of noobs through old content for the bonus tomes.
Still, we have no open-world PVP so it´s not like the real black market where you might get shot, ... here, all you have to fear is insults which can be blocked, blacklisted ... and reported ^^

[Ragnorak]

Year. Old. Salt

[Celaine]

I'm trying to figure out why anyone pays for clears anymore. Frankly, it should be the other way around. People should be paying the new person to come along for their clear, because they're getting all those delicious newbie tomes to apply to their relic tokens. (shrugs)

Year old Salt

I'm guessing the necrobumper probably used the search function for a similar topic and replied to it. Because everyone on the forums screeches their heads off if anyone makes a new thread on the same sort of topic. Can't really gripe at people for not using the search function, then complain when they do.

[Avin00]

I remember when sell runs were a thing on Pheonix my FC disagreed with the practice so were offering sell runs for Titan HM back when it was a thing for 7 gil for the express purpose of destroying the market.

[Seraphix2407]

You can simply divide the players who buy runs.
1: Who doesn't really care and wants a run done with or the items from the raid/primal etc
2: People who's really good, (met alot of them, even made them part of the team actually) but can't seem to find 7 other good people to do the content.

Ive done over 400 coil runs for bonuses for the current relic and the one last year. That was pretty much free, same with the primals.

[Preypacer]

Hi Rika.

It's all pathetic. The "[people who can win for whatever reason]" that complain about "[people who cannot win for whatever reason]" not being good enough and as the reason for nerfs to content are enabling the same people they criticize by selling runs.

Edit: So touchy!

I had an experience with this myself some time ago.

A while back, I was trying to get through the first Coil, and was up to Twintania. I asked folks in my FC if they'd be willing to help. I wasn't looking for a carry; I wanted to work for and earn it myself. Regardless, I couldn't get any takers, and one member, I'll call him Jack (don't know his real name anyway), gave me this particularly long speech, over-explaining why they didn't help anyone anymore, because people don't listen, players suck and just want to be carried, and on and on.

Now, bear in mind, I'd known this person going back to 1.0, had happily helped them with numerous things they needed, and they knew I wasn't a slacker or someone who would expect to be carried. I like earning/learning my own way through things, I don't like wasting people's time, I'm a fast learner, and I like to play well. I'd watched a couple vids on the fight, and jotted down one or two word reminders for each phase, that I could quickly glance at as the fight progressed. Still, they seemed convinced that I would be one of those people who wouldn't follow instructions, and who would just want to be carried.

Of course, I was put off by their dismissive attitude toward me, as it was completely unfounded. However, their true reason for not wanting to help me earn the win would become clear before long.

When I realized I was going to have a very difficult time finding people to help, I stated that I might as well wait 'til they implemented the (then) forthcoming nerfs to Coil, because maybe people would be more willing to give it a go then. I wouldn't get to experience it at its full difficulty, but at least I'd get to experience it.

Well, this seemed to ruffle Jack's feathers. Why? Well, they were completely against the idea of a nerf to Coil. "It's supposed to be a difficult challenge!" they declared. "Nerfing it for the bads is a slap in the face to those of us who had to learn it the hard way!"... and on and on. It was a long, indignant rant about how SE was taking away his accomplishments, even though they weren't, and couldn't... because he'd already done it. Anyway...

He was unmoving in his belief that Coil is supposed to be a challenge, it's supposed to be worked for and won through practice and determination, and players should not be given an easier time getting through it.

I said "Well, the content is months old at this point, and newer, more difficult content is in its place. In the meantime, people, like myself, can't get help with going through it, because people like you have either already done it and don't want to help anyone else, or because they dread what it entails and don't even want to bother. If the fights are made a bit more forgiving, then that might encourage more people to give it a shot, or even for people who don't want to go through it again now. If not for that, there's a good chance many people who want to get it done, like myself, will never have that opportunity."

Their response blew me away, and I'm sure some have already predicted it.

They suggested that I could pay them and some of their friends to get me through it, that they'd done it for other people. They could maybe even get me a discount.

A ha. The truth comes out.

Their whole rant about how "coil is supposed to be difficult, and should be earned through practice" etc, was BS. Their long speech for why they didn't want to help me win the fight was BS. For a price, they'd happily let me lie dead on the ground for the entire fight, and wouldn't think twice about it.

Their *real* reason for being against it was that voluntarily helping someone wouldn't be profitable for them. Their real reason for being so against the nerfs to Coil is that they feared they'd lose a major source of gil in the game if people no longer needed to buy their wins.

It had nothing to do with "preserving the challenge of defeating Coil". It had everything to do with preserving their in-game bank account.

I called him on his BS, informed him of how much of a pathetic hypocritical d-bag he was, and haven't spoken another word to him since.

Sadly, I've seen many, many more examples of that person's attitude in this game's player base.

[PArcher]

@preypacer:

While they are like that, the fact remains that most people only want to be carried. Almost every pf that has a high ilv requirement (way over the necessary) and has an aggressive stance towards errors is made by someone looking for free carries. It's just sad that people don't want to learn.

I used to help out pfs all the time, but this attitude got way too common, and it's made me not help people through there anymore. If someone asks through a linkshell or sends a tell, I will. But it's rare I join pf groups anymore.

[Alisa180]

As someone who's yet to get an AS1 clear, I recently joined an FC whose leader is part of a linkshell that sells runs. He's been running weekly learning parties (with mixed results) and I grew increasingly frusturated when we seemed unable to even get past Faust. That's without getting into my troubles dodging Photon Spaser on Oppressor (which I'm now working on by practicing in A1N).

I've had mixed feelings about selling runs, but with the main raid group starting to work through AS3 (which I really wanted to do since A3N is my favorite fight), my increasing desperation led me to ask how much one of those runs cost. He flat out told me "I'm not letting you buy one of those runs." He sees my determination to learn and get through the old-fashioned way, and isn't about to let me waste my gil.

I wish there were more people like my FC leader.

[Canadane]

I'm running newer or less fortunate FC members through old stuff left right and centre for free.
My payment is twofold. One, their sweet sweet bonus tomestones. Two, I know that a friend gets to enjoy the story (coil) or at least maybe some gear.

I know a lot of my static is so tired of Final Coil now hah, but nobody says being nice is easy.
Would I ever sell content? Maybe if someone really wanted to push gil onto me, but I'd rather not have dirty gil in my earnings. Unless you're someone I know who is an endgame crafter, I question how all this gil comes into your pockets when you cannot even defeat old nerfed content!