Why are we forcing Jack of All Trade jobs into DPS/Tank/Healer?

[SendohJin]

The problem is that your not the only person who has a way of seeing rdm and there are people who see rdm as capable of doing more than just strictly DPS.

and the "strictly DPS" notion is mostly wrong. a RDM is regularly supposed to use most lower tier White and Black Magic. DPS can't regularly use Cure spells in this game, that hurts DPS. the sword part of RDM makes them less suited to be a back line healer, so you're left with "are there enough tricks in their bag so that they can be viable tanks". between anything you can do with "Spikes" spells, Phalanx, Parrying with a Fencing Sword, Fast Cast, Stoneskin and Cure. i don't see why not.

[Lambdafish]

The problem is that your not the only person who has a way of seeing rdm and there are people who see rdm as capable of doing more than just strictly DPS. Anyone who played ffxi as RDM is probably going to be as devastated with it when its released as I am with summoner in this game compared to ffxi.

Yeah yeah, I know... This isn't ffxi so deal with it.jpg ... And I will, by just not playing it most likely.

Don't worry, I wasn't forcing my idea of a RDM on anyone, I was just proving that Red Mage can fit within the trinity quite nicely, and doesn't have to fit the formula of support, although your mention of "strictly dps" doesnt fit my idea either, as I did mention support type spells (think Virus, eye for an eye, vunerability spells, as well as things like goad but for MP) alongside elemental sword attacks. This game has tried to make classic jobs different before, especially DRK, so I see no reason why we would see complaints from people about RDM (other than whining "I didnt get my perfect vision" people, which im surprised we didnt see more of in DRK).

I also want DPS SAM and Chemist Healer (healing mudras), and I know a lot of people would hate that :P

[NanaWiloh]

Two of those roles have already been filled. AST and Scholars filled the healer/dps niche and DRK have done a nice job of filling the DPS/Tank niche. Leaving the healer/tank role open as most tanks with the exception of Paladins have only self heals. Note though a Paladins ability to heal other members is pretty much not needed.With most classes having buffs/Debuffs the need for another buffing class is kind of mute point unless you take away from others or op the new buffs as some have mentioned.

[Verius_Nox]

I don't imagine they'd change to a 5 player light party set up, everything they currently have balanced around is the 4 players, and 8 in full party dungeons, and it'd take them a bit to work out the proper balancing if they changed to 5/10.

And then comes the next problem, gauging how good a support should be for 5 man content, and then in 10 man content. Would there be 2 supports for 10 man content? If they are powerful enough to buff/debuff in 10 man content, and take up 2 slots DPS would otherwise take, then it's a possibility they'd be extremely powerful in 5 man content, or the even the inverse.

The real problem is how would they work a support only class into this game, that actually works in both tiers of content they have. In games currently that have support only roles, typically a support is shoe horned into dungeon content for the sake of having a role for them, but when it comes to raid content, you just take the one or two, and fill the last 15 slots or so with DPS.

I'm not against the idea of having support only roles, I know a few friends whom it'd be perfect for, but I just don't see it happening in this game. It is something the developers have to create the game with them in mind for it to function.

[Warlyx]

The problem is that your not the only person who has a way of seeing rdm and there are people who see rdm as capable of doing more than just strictly DPS. Anyone who played ffxi as RDM is probably going to be as devastated with it when its released as I am with summoner in this game compared to ffxi.

Yeah yeah, I know... This isn't ffxi so deal with it.jpg ... And I will, by just not playing it most likely.

Rdm in FF series (more so in FFXI thanks to subjob) was the wild card , heals? yes , nukes? yes , melee? yes.... tank? some....

if Rdm come as DPS melee , ppl will scream bloddy murder , is a MAGE! its supposed to have spells...

if rdm come as mage , what? RDM main weapon is a sword , why isnt melee while nuke and healing?

if rdm come as healer.... WHAT? gimped WHM , blablabla

if rdm come as tank .......NO !$!$ WAY? , we have pld for tank " healer" (to be fair PLD need more selfhealing and maybe some "light nuke") , or drk for tank/blm....

no1 will be happy thats for sure.

we have a dps Melee/caster already with Nin :/

[Iromi]

I would love to see a real support class in this game

[basketofseals]

You missed the point...

Imagine ffxiv came out and every job was basically War PLD and DRK never existed. DPS instead got a defense buff and they have their natural defense tools like fists of earth, ect ect.

And the object of the game was for these dPS to hold off healers.

Someone wants to play a job where they are the only ones taking damage and managing hate on everything. Makes a thread like this and introduces the "tank" concept.

To make it you'd have to make up reasons for tanks to be In the game. Make dPS defense weaker, make monsters hit harder because now tanks will have more cool downs. Saying a support job can't be implemented is like saying tank never should've been implemented because it needs a little changing to make it work.

The trinity isn't something that was just made up by a game and got unreasonably popular. The tank/dps/healer setup has existed since the very first rendition of DnD, and maybe even before that.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Red Mage easily fits tank. Don't see the need to make this complicated.

Tanks heal and deal damage and sustain themselves. Like a Red Mage.

It also fits this theme.

BLM=DPS
WHM=Healer
RDM=Tank

With White Mage Spells a Red Mage can protect and heal himself from attacks.
With Black Mage Spells a Red Mage can hurt and increase enmity to himself, using aoe attacks and such.

Requires 15 Thaumaturge, 15 Conjuror.

Jack of all Trade classes ARE the Tank classes. I'm also dying for a Mage Tank.

[Dyvid]

Thoughts?

What are your ideas on queue times and how adding another role won't make it worse.

[Jhett_Magnum]

MCH/BRD regardless of past iterations are the support in the game. So unless they add Skill trees or cut back on MCH/BRD dps skills we won't see a dedicated support role. All the issues have been pointed out either they are too strong or underpowered.

I personally want RDM and BLU to work but unless they change the system around the trinity isn't going anywhere.