[GM] Please take notice. Make statement on housing.

[Aushi]

I haven't read all the posts. But in case someone hasn't fixed it. Houses can't be sold. What you pay for is a player to relinquish their land/plot at an arranged time so you can be the first to buy it. So you pay player X gil. Then X gil again to server for the plot. Then X gil to NPC for permit.

With that said. I would think it's against ToS since you could be scammed. Get your gil taken and no plot relinquished. Or worse. Have someone buy the newly relinquished lot before you can.

[Ilitsa]

So where exactly in the TOS does this fall under? Just a blanket "it's against the TOS" is kinda of useless until they point where in the TOS does it say so. This is reminding me of Eternal Bonding ring sales where GMs said one thing, CMs said another, and Yoshi then said it was ok.

That's what I'm thinking too lol. I can see them saying it's against ToS to sale an ingame house for irl money, but Gil? I just can't see that being the case, not calling anyone a liar, or anything, but it just seems kinda....strange. to me it'd be like it being illegal to sell the crafted relic items, or something. if I get the money to upgrade to a nicer house, why shouldn't I be allowed to do so, while making some money back, making someone else happy, and not having to wait the 45 days for the reclamation? Now if I could just get my 80% back by destroying my ownership of said land, Which, IMO, should be the case anyways.

I haven't read all the posts. But in case someone hasn't fixed it. Houses can't be sold. What you pay for is a player to relinquish their land/plot at an arranged time so you can be the first to buy it. So you pay player X gil. Then X gil again to server for the plot. Then X gil to NPC for permit.

With that said. I would think it's against ToS since you could be scammed. Get your gil taken and no plot relinquished. Or worse. Have someone buy the newly relinquished lot before you can.

That falls under "player beware" territory, that is something a player should be able to choose to take a chance on and get no support if that were to happen, it's no different than any trade deal where you're trading something off mb for several mil (primal weapons, furnishings, anyone). When you trade, you run the risk of being scammed. That's solely on the two traders involved.

[Aushi]

I haven't done much off MB buying. But a trade would involve the trade window. Where both players put the agreed items/gil and both click OK if both agree. It's much different than giving someone gil and hoping they do what they said. They seem to always wanna hold people's hand, so I figured because it's super easy to scam it would be against ToS.

[Magis]

That falls under "player beware" territory, that is something a player should be able to choose to take a chance on and get no support if that were to happen, it's no different than any trade deal where you're trading something off mb for several mil (primal weapons, furnishings, anyone). When you trade, you run the risk of being scammed. That's solely on the two traders involved.

I don't mind a GM coming in to fix a scam or theft, that would fall under player harassment. But the act itself of selling housing doesn't really fall anywhere.

[Ilitsa]

I haven't done much off MB buying. But a trade would involve the trade window. Where both players put the agreed items/gil and both click OK if both agree. It's much different than giving someone gil and hoping they do what they said. They seem to always wanna hold people's hand, so I figured because it's super easy to scam it would be against ToS.

If I were to sell you something, say for 5 mil off mb (to avoid all those fees!) You can only trade me 1 mil at a time. If I give you the item ahead of time, I knowingly run the risk of losing said item and a lot of gil, if you give the gil first, you knowingly run the risk of losing your gil and not getting an item, while, yes, a GM can and probably will step in if/when reported, it's a known risk all the same. Same should be for housing imo

[Aushi]

There's two sides to the coin.

One. Sure. It's mean. But it isn't WRONG. People saw an opportunity. Camped out for lordy knows how long. Got the places and resell. Honestly. The same way they could get plots. So could others. They didn't have any advantages over others. No programs to auto buy. Nothing. Simply gil and patience. It really isn't breaking any rules. And I bet if anyone is scammed GMs might help.

There's also the thing we ALL know. The housing system is a broken mess. Limited. Over priced. Etc. So with this specific situation it ruffles feathers. Since people see it as other's taking advantage.

But honestly. HOW many people want housing? And how many actually got demolished? There would still be people all mad about not getting a home. Even if NO ONE bought one to resell. People would still be upset.

Sure. Runs aren't limited. So no one sees it bad to sell them. But you can't pick and choose just because one affects you and another doesn't. I've seen people who solo play upset that people want gil for something like a run, instead of being social and help. Even fellow FC members.

Down to the facts. Runs exchange a service for gil. One that can't be crafted. Bought or ordered by the mog shop. Same as buying the "service" of someone relinquishing land just for you.

Because it angers some people. Doesn't mean it should be against ToS. I figured it would be. I'm used to games banning things because of "high possibility" of scam. But don't agree it should be.

This all coming from a very casual player that 1mil gil and I feel like I'm rich!

[ExKage]

With that said. I would think it's against ToS since you could be scammed. Get your gil taken and no plot relinquished. Or worse. Have someone buy the newly relinquished lot before you can.

The GMs have stated that player run casinos were allowed. /random is in game. The rules and details are discussed in game. If they are scammed, the GM just need timezone, world, time and they can see the log and see what happened.

Same thing with housing sale. You make sure no one is next to the plot to buy it. You and seller/ you and buyer are there. You explicitly state what is happening. "I will see sell you the plot by you giving me X gil to relinquish the plot to you and only you. I will not keep it and I will not try and buy it once I have relinquished the plot and been paid." "Agreed."

Done you have stated all the agreements and GM can track the fraud just like with casinos.

[Azazua_azura]

It would be under player griefing and scamming

having 1 person otr group of people monopolising a limited game features for personal gain.

Also can be a slight disruption of game play as monoplising a feature prevents intended use, why should a player or player group more or less exploit the system for person gain.

selling runs does nothing its basic mercing you see in past mmo and MUD not everyone likes it, but it is and has been a thing. It doesn't monopolize content as you arfe not forced join.

with house flipping you are forced to do what the player wants and can easily be scamed.

[Whiteroom]

More wards and private apartment housing in future patches is already a pretty big statement if you ask me.

Please look forward to it?

[Nicobo]

When I can see "WTS house / FC" in the Housing section of this official forum,
how can I believe it is not encouraged ??? ^^;