To all the people complaining about DPSing in an off role

[Misutoraru]

It is not my job as healer or tank to carry the inability of 1 or more DPS,
You might argue the harsh dps check, but that is dev balancing issue and mechanics
Tank and especially healer DPS should alway be a bonus but not must
These kind of mechanism must be change for long live and healthier game environment

[anguel]

Sounds to me like the player was at fault, not his gear.

IMO you should reconsider potentially alienating future prospects based off of one poorly analyzed experience.

the things its, it didnt happen just 1 time, its not rare its these day to see this !!

because why wanting to use dps stuff ? you never gonna do the same as a REAL dps ?

i prefer build myself as a FUCKING WALL and make the healer life easier, taking only 1 heal with me, and taking 1 more dps THIS is more efficient for me !!

[Kallera]

Does dps help the party? Yes, provided they don't shirk their other jobs of keep people alive. Until SE offers me that luxury, I can't exactly help them tank or heal.

Would I break a party over it? Generally, no.

If that makes me "part of the problem" so be it.

[rappa]

the things its, it didnt happen just 1 time, its not rare its these day to see this !!

because why wanting to use dps stuff ? you never gonna do the same as a REAL dps ?

i prefer build myself as a FUCKING WALL and make the healer life easier, taking only 1 heal with me, and taking 1 more dps THIS is more efficient for me !!

If you want be a Wall, FFXIV is not your game. Atm, the game is designed around dps, being a wall is gimping yourself and your party.

I heal in wow, rift, wildstar and others mmo. Pre-casting and stopcasting is nice to conserve mana.
In FFXIV, i did the same but i notice i don't need. All attacks are being similar. Auto-attacks and a tank killers. Low level dungeons and high end. The most of the time, you are stopcasting than healing. Medica II + renew are enough to keep a tank healed. The party doesn't need heals unless they take unnecessary damage or aoe party.

In wow, i enjoyed pre-casting and i said me -"Nice, i heal the group during a hard encounter and my mana was 50-70%. I managed well and my overheal was 5%."- In ffxiv, unless the tank pull 5-10 mobs, i am bored only healing

[anguel]

If you want be a Wall, FFXIV is not your game. Atm, the game is designed around dps, being a wall is gimping yourself and your party.

I heal in wow, rift, wildstar and others mmo. Pre-casting and stopcasting is nice to conserve mana.
In FFXIV, i did the same but i notice i don't need. All attacks are being similar. Auto-attacks and a tank killers. Low level dungeons and high end. The most of the time, you are stopcasting than healing. Medica II + renew are enough to keep a tank healed. The party doesn't need heals unless they take unnecessary damage or aoe party.

In wow, i enjoyed pre-casting and i said me -"Nice, i heal the group during a hard encounter and my mana was 50-70%. I managed well and my overheal was 5%."- In ffxiv, unless the tank pull 5-10 mobs, i am bored only healing

well atm, my dps is arround 830, and a tank with dps stuff turn arround 950 (i have a friend in my static who is tank and want be like this tank-dps, and after parsing both of us in AS1 that was the result)


wow that sooo much a big difference !! :O

like i said i prefer WAY more, being really hard to kill, and take 1 more dps, who can deal 1800 pure dps, than trying to fill a hole that is clearly not needed (talking from experience)
but i do agree in my thinking way, i end up giving lot of stress to the healer (solo heal, not anybody can do it !) but this proved to works lot of time !

In ffxiv, unless the tank pull 5-10 mobs, i am bored only healing

are we still talking about challenge, primal fight ? like thordan EX ?

[Kosmos992k]

If you want be a Wall, FFXIV is not your game.

I disagree, PLD is explicitly described and intended to be the wall like tank, so yeah, FFXIV can be their game.

However;

Atm, the game is designed around dps, being a wall is gimping yourself and your party.

This is true *ONLY* in Alex Savage and perhaps the EX primals from HW. That content does not, and never will, constitute the entire game. The game is designed around class/job balance, Alex Savage was designed around that too, but was then overtuned in an attempt to make it more difficult for raid groups to clear it early (which they kinda did anyway by supplementing DPS damage with healer and tank damage).

**snip**In ffxiv, unless the tank pull 5-10 mobs, i am bored only healing

OK, that's the way *you* feel, but not the way everyone feels.

It's perfectly fine for anyone to feel that *they* themselves are not maxing out their job if they are not pulling 90% of potential healing and 90% of potential damage at the same time in a fight (as someone mentioned earlier). However, not everyone feels that a Healer in group content is measured by their DPS contribution, instead many consider the healer's ability to keep everyone alive, conserve MP for the 'oh shit' moments and generally manage the health and status of party members as a measure of their skill and worth.

The same is true of tanks, especially as tanks are doing damage all the time to maintain aggro, so maximizing their damage has a much smaller return (especially for PLD) for the increased risk of an all STR build and using their damage stance instead of tank stance. Many people measure tank performance based on holding aggro, collecting wayward adds, pointing the boss the right way, not spinning the boss, using cooldowns, dodging AoE (without spinning the Boss), and generally keeping the party safe while minimizing the stress on the healer.

Folks need to stop demanding that healers and tanks DPS in all content, they also need to stop saying that tanks or healers that don't are bad at their job, or somehow inferior. That's just begging for an argument.

In Alex Savage, or any progression raid/end-game party, it's all hands to the pumps and everyone does whatever they can to hit DPS checks and such. I don't think there is any argument against that. Though some might want to see raid/end-game content designed in such a way that tanks and healers are pushed to perform excellently, but not by maxing out their DPS. I know I would rather see content that challenges each job/role in their specific area, not just blanket DPS challenges.

[rappa]

When you are trying to defeat a boss the first time and the hp is not a problem thanks to cd management. You should do more dps as you can. More dps is equal to skip phases, kill adds more fast, as tank you will generate more aggro.

Obivously i am talking engame content undergeared. Once the content is farmed, no matters you are using vit or str. Or heals don't do dps.

Defeat a boss during first week it's the difference between do more easy the next fights and get loot which help you to clear more fast. That is the reason why tanks and heals do dps.

Outside endgame is about courtesy. A healer who doesn't heal because is not need it and jumping around mobs. Meanwhile the party is trying to kill them.

I'll not demand a healer to do dps, but i will reward to someone who did. A recommendation is not enough. Dungeons are tedious and bored. Why prolongate that suffer 5-10 minutes more because you only want heal and you are not doing because is not need it?

[anguel]

That is the reason why tanks and heals do dps.

for me why "some" (yes YES some) tank start going DPS its because of a wave, that say "tank must DPS" that it, every people that i know who play tank as main, did this, going dps for a while,
then after noticing it was putting more stress than anything, they rapidily stopped it !

but anyway, i will stop this here because our thinking way is clearly, not the same

Dungeons are tedious and bored. Why prolongate that suffer 5-10 minutes more because you only want heal and you are not doing because is not need it?

hmm ahem, like i said im not talking about dungeon, but raid and challenge ...

[Kosmos992k]

Outside endgame
**snip**
I'll not demand a healer to do dps, but i will reward to someone who did. A recommendation is not enough. Dungeons are tedious and bored. Why prolongate that suffer 5-10 minutes more because you only want heal?

Well, in my experience, a dungeon with a tank and healer who know what they are doing runs smoothly, while not challenging for the speed run title, they are generally more than quick enough to satisfy most players. Not every player shares your disdain for dungeons, and not every player has farmed the living crap out of them, so not every player is bored when running them.

However, all I wanted to point out is that in any 4-man dungeon if everyone knows what they are doing, there is no prolonging of a run, even if a healer does only minimal downtime dps. If you view running dungeons in such a way that you can't 'suffer' a few minutes in them, perhaps you should just avoid dungeons?

[rappa]

you should just avoid dungeons?

Don't worry about that, i barely join a dungeon. Hunts, levequest, a few FATES and challenge log are enough to level one char in a slowly pace.

Expert with friends and guildys are fast than DF. So our runs are not more than 20 mins.