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  1. #1
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    PLD does have an identity. You're a bodyguard. You're sworn to protect corrupt officials, and we're sworn to bring them down.

    Thematically, I think PLD is about supporting the vulnerable members of your party and intervening when they're in danger. Cover is probably the most iconic example of this, but some of the other support skills (Clemency, Stoneskin, Divine Veil) lend themselves to this as well. DRK and WAR, in contrast, tend more to disable their opponents to render them less effective at dealing or taking damage.

    The problem lies in how we've interpreted PLD's identity as a community. If PLD is a "defensively-orientated tank", shouldn't PLD always be MT? If tanks are designed to be defensive by nature, then shouldn't the "defensive tank" be the best tank? But with three tank classes in the game, and probably more to come in the future, it simply isn't feasible for PLD to be the de facto MT in every encounter.

    What happens when you build a tank job's identity around it being MT? There's no problem as long as this is the status quo, as it was from 2.0 up until Alexander Savage. But what happens when that changes, and (gasp!) two world firsts are done using a "non-standard" MT? You get an identity crisis, 5+ pages on the forums on how PLD is "broken", and an extended discussion on the "tank meta" and why "defensive-orientated" (read: PLD) tanks "can't compete" in today's dps-focused raids.

    Here's the thing. Most people didn't sign up as a tank just to OT. So you have to learn to share. Each tank should have a full set of abilities that they can use as MT and OT.

    Cover is a fantastic skill that allows you to extend the active tank's cooldown repertoire without requiring a swap. I'd like to see more tank abilities in this same vein about intervening during a tank buster to either counter-attack or help mitigate more damage. Support abilities like clemency and stoneskin need to complement rather than overlap with healer roles so that you can visibly see the benefit of your actions.

    As far as actively tanking goes, I think that the change to Shield Swipe is a step in the right direction, although I'd like to see more oGCD based shield strikes.
    (1)
    Last edited by Lyth; 11-15-2015 at 07:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Brannigan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,486
    Character
    Will Brannigan
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    You're a bodyguard. You're sworn to protect corrupt officials,
    This isn't true of the Sultansworn and it's especially not true of player character paladins. NPC paladins are basically the elite knights of Ul'dah, sworn to protect the sultan(a), the sultanate, and her people. I know knights in real history were often not so chivalrous, but these are Knights with a capital K (which is why they're called paladins) - they're supposed to actually be virtuous and follow their code.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jenlyns
    A paladin swears allegiance to the sultanate.
    A paladin shall be the sword and shield of the sultanate.
    A paladin defends the people of the realm.
    ...
    A true paladin is one who bends his knee to a higher cause, and offers his sword and shield without promise of reward. The battle arts that the paladin learns have been held secret, nurtured, and perfected within the ranks of the Sultansworn elite for nigh on these six hundred years. But remember that fancy swordplay and well-polished armor do not make you a paladin. You must be just in your heart and strive always to be an exemplar of true virtue.
    Obviously, this doesn't always actually happen even in game, which is why Jenlyns gets punked during the level 30-50 quests.

    Player paladins are free paladins, which are basically wandering do-gooders who act with a code of honor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenlyns
    A free paladin has no master. Instead he travels all lands, and in every place takes up the cause of the unarmed and defenseless. You swear fealty not to a lord, but to yourself - you are nobility amongst adventurers.
    The problem with trying to build a story around this concept is that it's the job description of the warrior of light already. So we could have a quest about protecting the weak and helpless, but that's basically every quest in the game already. Instead, Paladin 30-60 is about trying to restore the honor to a once-great organization that is currently in decline (30-50 is also about making Jenlyns into a confident captain).

    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    WHO CARES ABOUT THAT GODDAMN SWORD?!??!?!!
    The Sultansworn serve the sultan, but nowadays Ul'dah is mostly controlled by the syndicate. They've lost Oathkeeper - a legendary sword that is the symbol of their order and used to glow so brightly that it made night look like day. To top it all off, their previous captain is supposedly the guy who stole the sword. It's like if the president stole the Statue of Liberty somehow and defected to an enemy state - it just completely undermines the legitimacy of the whole organization.

    Getting Oathkeeper back is important to restoring the morale and the honor of the Sultansworn. Jenlyns even says as much if you visit him after PLD 60

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenlyns
    In fact, it would seem that every sworn brother and sister has been attending to their duties with a renewed pride ever since Oathkeeper was returned to us.
    So, yeah, the paladin job quests could use a little bit more heroics and chivalry, but I think it's an okay quest line as it is.

    As far as paladin gameplay identity goes, if they wanted to strengthen it it's simple

    1) improve cover
    2) improve clemency
    3) improve divine veil
    4) improve tempered will
    5) improve shield swipe/other shield moves

    Everything else (except hallowed ground) either DRK or WAR does better. The best "paladin moment" in the game is Hallowed Ground vs Akh Morn. I had another one just today, though, when I covered a guy who messed up Thordan EX's gaze and got feared into a frontal cone. It was really awesome, but it was also a 1/1000 occurrence.

    Saving people and surviving impossible stuff is supposed to be our 10k Fell Cleave, but our "saving people" skills are too weak and unwieldy. Also, as your party improves your opportunities to shine come up less often. You don't need the stars to align to do badass warrior or dark knight stuff (though I do find DRK lacking in "wow" moments outside of some Plunge stuff.)

    Anyway. That's what I think. Sorry for rambling, it's late.

    One more thing about paladins/oathkeeper

    Jenlyns: Oathkeeper may not shine for me as it did for you, but perhaps, in time, it will.
    Jenlyns: But even should it not, I will not lose heart, for a paladin's virtue is not in the radiance of his blade, but in the righteousness of his actions.
    Jenlyns: By what we decide to do every day, we will be good men. Or not.
    (8)
    Last edited by Brannigan; 11-15-2015 at 09:56 PM.