Cash shop and the situation with the game.

[Colorful]

At least WoW hasn't put the Lich King's armor on the cash shop ... oh, wait! They added extra SKINS to HotS for the Lich King and for every other hero in that game ... in the cash shop.

Get used to it. You don't have to like it, you don't have to buy it, but complaining about it isn't going to make it go away. If it's a deal-breaker with you, move on. If not, complain away. Just don't expect everyone to be on board that particular bandwagon.

"Companies that want to make as much money as the market will bear are eeeeeeevil". Pfffffbt.

Except that game is F2P and centered around characters from their franchises similar to whatever that mobile game for the Final Fantasy series is called. How is that even a legitimate comparison? They're two separate games, it would be like claiming that Assassin's Creed 2 has been affected by the micostrasnatctions in Unity. But disregarding that, I'm not going to buy into it and I am complaining, but am I not expecting everyone to be on board with this "bandwagon" as you call it. There's always two sides two or more sides to an argument, and I'm arguing one of them that being my opinion. I'm giving feedback on a product that I believe is going in the wrong direction, that's it. If you don't like posts that are against the idea, "move on" to quote what you said, or express how you think it's a good thing going forward instead of "strawmanning" (I use that term loosely). The argument isn't their reputation or that they're evil, I couldn't care less if Yoshida ate live chickens all day long, but what the future holds for the game is what I'm worried about, and would glad to be wrong about.

[LaurelinKementari]

Nope. No problem. Races here don't have advantages like other games. Only aesthetics.

That's just sad. Go give SE access to your bank account already, the way you're so happy to apologise for them and give them all your money for nothing in return but more stuff to pay for.

[AriaEnia]

Yeah they call it a subscription fee.

Sub fee is like bills, like water and electricity, food and stuffs, cash shop is where I spend a bit more money for my lipsticks, maskara, manicure, pedicure and stuffs, to look a little bit more fabulous.

[Yshnal]

Sub fee is like bills, like water and electricity, food and stuffs, cash shop is where I spend a bit more money for my lipsticks, maskara, manicure, pedicure and stuffs, to look a little bit more fabulous.

Actually, your bills are the electricity paid to run your PC/PS3/PS4, while your sub is actually where you're spending that extra bit of money to get something shiny. Or, if you want to turn your example into a proper one, you're paying a bit of money for your lipsticks, maskara, manicure, pedicure and stuffs, to look a little bit more fabulous, all while you're already paying a sub for a monthly service on the hairdressing saloon. That's called double dipping.

I'll say it once again: the whole game is optional. By defending this you're just telling us that they can strip everything from the game and charge your for it, while paying your sub just gives you acces to a standard faceless character on rags (with stats). This is not going to happen (I hope), but you get the idea about how stupid the whole "it's optional!" is.

[Rose-Wild]

At least WoW hasn't put the Lich King's armor on the cash shop ... oh, wait! They added extra SKINS to HotS for the Lich King and for every other hero in that game ... in the cash shop.

Get used to it. You don't have to like it, you don't have to buy it, but complaining about it isn't going to make it go away. If it's a deal-breaker with you, move on. If not, complain away. Just don't expect everyone to be on board that particular bandwagon.

"Companies that want to make as much money as the market will bear are eeeeeeevil". Pfffffbt.

Omg the logic in your post is like non existent. HotS is a FREE TO PLAY and the LICH KING is a playable hero on that game. Not an NPC.

[Kuwagami]

OK. Once again, let's re-iterate.

You pay a monthly sub. This monthly sub, according to the ToS you have signed (and should have read), doesn't give you any right except having access to the servers. Moreover, SE can decide to shut the servers down for as long as they want without any compensation is it pleases them to do so (they don't, but they could).

Though, that's it. Your monthly sub ONLY gives you access to the servers and whatever SE puts there. It doesn't give you access to every single content they may create.

Then, SE crated a cash shop. At first, you could only change name, change servers. Then you could change your appearance (fantasia pots), get cosmetic fluff, and such. It is within SE's right to do so, and you have nothing to complain about as this stuff was designed as content for the cash shop, not content accessible within the servers. As such, your monthly sub doesn't give you any right on these items.

The past event items are a bit more borderline, but they aren't accessible anymore in the game so it's more a matter of "get what you'd never have otherwise" than "pay for fluff accessible with your monthly sub".

The day SE puts P2W items in the cash shop, it would also be their right. Though that would be the day I quit this game.


TL;DR : Your monthly sub doesn't grant you anything more than access to the server. SE can put whatever they damn want in their cash shop as long as it doesn't go against their ToS that you damn accepted without reading. If it doesn't please you, vote with your wallet and unsub.

[WinterLuna]

TL;DR : Your monthly sub doesn't grant you anything more than access to the server. SE can put whatever they damn want in their cash shop as long as it doesn't go against their ToS that you damn accepted without reading. If it doesn't please you, vote with your wallet and unsub.

You are acting like people are saying having a cash shop means Square are violating their Terms of Service. People are unhappy with the current cash shop, it doesn't mean they think they're entitled to it just because they pay a sub.

In that case, any suggestion to the game could just be responded with 'you pay for access to the servers, you're not entitled to anything else.' People are allowed to voice their opinion just because it doesn't violate the TOS.

[StrejdaTom]

TL;DR : Your monthly sub doesn't grant you anything more than access to the server. SE can put whatever they damn want in their cash shop as long as it doesn't go against their ToS that you damn accepted without reading. If it doesn't please you, vote with your wallet and unsub.

Yoshida himself stated in multiple interviews that he is grateful for negative feedback and I am pretty sure he prefers people telling him what is wrong for them rather than unsubbing ASAP. No game would be able to evolve into something people like if they would leave for something rather than provide feedback. ToS also gives them the oportunity not to give a damn about FATEs being mandatory for 24man raid entering, Encounter difficulty, Class Balance, Quest variety, not being able to port on mount etc. (I think you get the point), yet they cared and changed it according to the feedback (or said they are going to change it in future, as they stated). When there will be enough negative feedback about cash shop (not now, still many people including me are fine with it), they will most probably change it too.

It's ok, you would rather leave than try to change the thing you don't like because you don't have the right to it, that's your opinion.
I believe SE listens to my feedback (and it has been already proven) so when I will hate something, I will try to change it before leaving and even ToS talk people like to toss into other players' faces so much won't change my mind.

EDIT: In case you would plan to doubt my words:
"Running an MMO is like running a country," Yoshida said. "Dissatisfied players will leave."
However, he said, as long as players are complaining, they still care. The trick is to learn to listen and adapt based off of those complaints.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/20/552...n-new-approach

For Yoshida, listening to feedback from both designers and players has been key. Where many of Square-Enix's other high profile directors have, in recent times, forged their own creative path with long-running series, often to the dismay of fans, Yoshida became obsessed with what players wanted. He visited the game's online forums every day and ordered one staff member to prepare a weekly report that listed each player request on the forums and allocated it a priority rating for implementation. "Regardless of what game designers say, it is always great to receive feedback on your games," he tells me.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-world-saviour

So yeah, ToS is nice way of saying what players can and cannot expect but that's not everything. Producer's will to change game from players forges the future of game and Yoshida has proven he is willing. ,)
Producer don't have to use ToS as his weapon and Yoshida doesn't do it, white knights do.

[Eidolon]

I think this also might be slightly a generational thing.

Those of us who came from games like FFXI / etc, have an expectation that when it comes to a game with a Pay-to-Play system, that the items within the game will be fully available to us. I believe in games like FFXIV, this expectation is not met, because we find that there are things put behind a cash wall that breaks the meta of what we feel is the spirit of a pay to play system.

I think there is a current generation that - due to things like Call of Duty Cash Boxes, Halo 5 Requisitions, and Mobile Game Apps that charge you to make things go faster, they've become very much so insensitized to the idea that 'things cost money' and actually find the current system in FFXIV to be more of a boon - they pay one flat fee, and then nothing they need is locked behind a paywall. This is likewise an understandable point.

I imagine there is of course people from each group that overflow into one another - I imagine that there are people from the older generation who have sort of submitted to the idea that the monthly fee no longer gets you what it used to in a P2P MMO. I imagine there are people who are annoyed in the current generation who are getting sick of getting nickle and dimed on top of it.

I think that, at the end of the day, there's a lot of dissapointment in SE, and voicing that dissapointment is our best weapon to attempting to maintain a minimum standard on the game. The alternative, is, of course - unsubbing.

I would like to add - my appology if my view of the two comes off as bias. I'm not sure how to remove that from my own statement, so as a disclaimer, I'm being upfront and saying yea - I am very bias to the old generation of gaming where we feel like we 'got what we paid for' without extra nickle and diming.

But ask yourself this:
Would you rather people:
A) Not buy items on the cash shop, and complain on the forums - something completely optional for your to look at.
B) Not buy items on the cash shop, and unsub from the game.

If you're ok with A, don't try to dissuade people from posting their opinion. State your in a mature manner, and move on simply enough (no one is suggesting you withhold your opinion.)
If you want B, then you probably are the biggest risk to SE as someone who will put the game on a path that will self destruct. You sohuld never want people to unsub from the game. The game having subs is a good thing. Hoping for people to unsub is basically hoping that someone will come cut a hole in your own ship.

[Kuwagami]

I know damn well that SE listens to feedback (Story mode raid being the prime example, or WAR's revamp). But people crying because they can't have ALL the cosmetic fluff coded into the game is not really constructive feedback. Especially one year after the exact same debate has been done and concluded by a general "meh whatever"