Bad/casual players with worse attitudes than the good "elitist" players

[Malevicton]

Relevant link https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ly_preventing/

tldr guy did a mini-experiment to see who raged the most relative to who was actually pulling solid dps. Most present demographic was : "16 cases of low-output DPS harassing / calling out the tanks, healers, other DPS randomly because they feel the instance is done "too slow"." where low dps was considered single target under 250 or aoe under 350.

[HakuroDK]

Can we not form a causal link between skill level and toxicity? That's as bad as saying maturity level scales with physical age. And as anyone who has watched a Friday Night Magic tournament will tell you, 40-year old children do exist.

There are toxic good players just as there are toxic bad players, and there are polite good players just as there are polite bad players.

Generalizing all bad players as being toxic only serves to generate a stigma that every player who doesn't perform up to snuff is a toxic player, which in turn will only serve to scare away the nice players who are more than willing to accept constructive criticisms.

Note that I say CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms. Just telling someone "You suck, git gud" isn't an eye-opening revelation and it certainly doesn't give a bad player any advice they can put into application.

Like... I was in an Aurum Vale run for my relic a while back. And in that run, there was a tank who was, like, a Level 47 DRK who admitted to being new to the job and had Level 40-45 gear on his person. The healer and the other DPS were shitting on him so hard for constantly losing hate despite the tank doing everything in his power to hold it, the DPS never using Quelling Strikes, and the healer never using Shroud of Saints to reduce their own aggro. And not once did they give him any advice, nevermind any advice that he could actually apply as a tank. It was all "OMG, you suck. You should uninstall the game. What a horrible tank."


tl;dr: There are toxic people everywhere, and it has absolutely nothing to do with skill level.

[Lexia]

Bad players are just bad players regardless whether they casual or elitists they just show it in different ways.

[Slappah]

I'm not sure I agree with this since the PS4 and a PC can almost operate the same way; like if you use a controller. The biggest difference is the PS4 just allows for more players who can't afford a high-grade PC. Sadly I play on PS3 for the time being, I will weep in sorrow.

I think the main reason is more generational, in a two-fold way. Younger players are too use to the internet and are unsure about proper social etiquette, regardelss of it being virtual. While, some older players who have been playing MMOs from the begining might feel that everyone should be on their level. I think older players who have just jumped into these type of MMOs are the nicer people. They know social etiquette, and are new themselves so they bring the best of both worlds, lol.

I meant ps4 as in, we don't get parsers, so we can't see our dps.

I wasn't referring to controller being worse or anything of that sort.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Explain this to me, why is it that the players who think they're good (but are actually bad) are the ones who develop worse attitudes than the good players that everyone refers to as "elitists" in this game?
PF is toxic on my server filled with players performing horribly with no real understanding of mechanics spewing venom at the wrong people when a run goes bad only because the person actually messing up is most the time also calling people out with them, I tend to notice these players to be the ones who just got their first clear in whatever content I'm doing or fairly close to clearing.

I've seen this happen in Ravana a lot which is the content I mostly PF just to help newer players get their first clear (this is me being a tank)

An example of this, I usually have my good whm static healer friend (he and I have way more totems than we can ever care for and only do this to kill time so wipes/bad gameplay aren't issues to us) with me helping newer people when all of the sudden people are dying to mechanics and he gets the other healer raging at him for "lack of heals" when people are standing in the fire, all while the same DPS messing up mechanics are the ones shouting at lack of heals and my WHM friend having not only top HPS but also decent DPS as well, how does this happen? and why are the bad players so toxic?

Of course, the 98% of the playerbase by default will be ruder then 2%.

Its much harder to make 75 people happy then 2-3 million.

I think the game should stop making content that 100 people enjoy.

[Seryl199]

Of course, the 98% of the playerbase by default will be ruder then 2%.

Its much harder to make 75 people happy then 2-3 million.

I think the game should stop making content that 100 people enjoy.

Only make content for the uninspired player base that performs below the baseline and fights back with great vigor against any attempts at self improvement? Sure, content is developed for the majority, but if it's constantly aimed at the lowest common denominator, those players will never improve, and the floor will never be raised. There needs to be some point, years into this game's production, that truly bad players need to see that they're performing poorly.

[Wildsprite]

Explain this to me, why is it that the players who think they're good (but are actually bad) are the ones who develop worse attitudes than the good players that everyone refers to as "elitists" in this game?

first let me correct you there. "Elitists" are terrible players not good players. they are the ones with the nastiest attitudes that grief others. they tend to know little about what they are doing and unhelpful and even grief you if you try to ask for help or give advice.

second, you(the community not you personally) have a festering attitude set that makes many players not admit when they screw up or that they don't really know the job that well.

the most pleasurable times I have had in game were not free from screw ups, they were free of bad attitudes.
these bad players you talk about really are the elitist sect. many of them claim to be casuals but exhibit the same nastiness and tend to be lazy.
good players are not elitist. the good players you party with will tend to just laugh screw ups off most of the time and tend to even joke about it.

[Malevicton]

That's as bad as saying maturity level scales with physical age.

It does though. That doesn't mean everyone's equally mature (as you said, 40 year old children exist), but people are generally more mature as they get older than they were as children. There are still very mature children, and immature adults, but those mature children will continue getting more mature and the immature adults will generally get somewhat more mature as well.

"There are toxic good players just as there are toxic bad players, and there are polite good players just as there are polite bad players"

There are, but you're forcing a binary here. It's not a question of whether or not they exist; that much is obvious. The question is one of relativity. Is one of those demographics more prevalent than the others? Just because all 4 groups exist doesn't mean the population is split evenly in 25% pockets. In most people's experiences, the rude bad players outnumber the polite good players, though the silent players of all groups outnumber their counterparts. The population is essentially Neutral>Rude>Polite.

That still doesn't mean it's causal, but whether or not it's causal doesn't really matter. The problem is that the pattern exists, regardless of where it came from or how it started. I don't think anyone's saying that being casual makes you toxic, but proportionally there are more toxic casual players than hardcore. 1 story from AV doesn't really change that.

[Emeke]

Communication. This was my first mmo and I remember my first dungeon I didn't really understand mechanics. As a dps I was pulling, and instead of explaining the healer let me die and refused a raise and said walk back. Boss fights everyone would run in knowing what to do and I'm trying to keep up. Receiving rude comments. Then I have great runs where mechanics are explained and people are extremely nice and I do great because I know what's up. And I think console gamers are more conditioned to out do others and shine than to work with others and not be the star.

[dank1]

Good discussion here, guess Ill edit the op and make it clear im not implying casuals are, sorry