Bad/casual players with worse attitudes than the good "elitist" players

[Vandril]

I hate threads like these. As a casual, it makes me feel as if I should not even try to do anything close to end game content. Not even HM dungeons. I know my ability level. It's not up there with the elitists, but I am not carried either.

I dunno it just seems like the community has turned away from even wanting to help the newbies like me that have only been around for 6ish months. I'll just go slum it in the leveling roulette.

This thread has little to do with new players, though. Nor even players who are unskilled because they're new. Nor, in fact, even casuals. That's not what it's about. What the OP is complaining about is how some truly terrible players have truly elitist attitudes, and it's sickening. Their performance is less an issue than their attitudes.
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@OP - I've always found that classifying players in an MMO is never as simple as "casual" or "elite". There's more than just two classifications. Generally speaking, the casuals are casual, and will rarely be seen in content as they may only run it once or twice a week. The elite are the elite, and they will be too busy being awesome at what they do to rant and rave in chat - these people are rarely found in PUGs. Then there's the people sort of in the middle - skilled, but too casual to really take advantage of it.

Lastly, we have what is by far the most obnoxious group of people. In my experience, a good 90% of people you'll find in PUGs fit into this group. I call them elitists. I use this term very differently from most of the MMO community, as they are NOT the same as the skilled few who are the elite. The elitists are the douche bags who have egos far too inflated for their very limited skill. These are the people who point fingers and play the blame game on the very first wipe. These are the people who will stand in AoEs and then complain that the healer wasn't healing them. These are the people who will pull before the tanks because "you should pull larger groups". These are the people who will hold groups hostage in order to be kicked so that they can avoid the punishment of leaving a group early. These are those people.

These people are the elitists (and I reiterate: this is not the same group as the actual elite), and they are the poison of MMO communities. I'd take a terrible but pleasant player over these elitists any day.

[Zeonx]

my second post isn't needed first post is good enough.

[Eothas]

...

This! I totally agree.

I'd take a terrible but pleasant player over these elitists any day.

Same, I would rather have a slightly lower skilled player (because the so called elitists are not good players in the first place), than these annoying people being carried and blaming others at the same time.

[Eloah]

I think part of the reason is that ps4 is a pretty big part of this games playerbase and majority of them have absolutely NO clue how much dps they actually do.

I'm not sure I agree with this since the PS4 and a PC can almost operate the same way; like if you use a controller. The biggest difference is the PS4 just allows for more players who can't afford a high-grade PC. Sadly I play on PS3 for the time being, I will weep in sorrow.

I think the main reason is more generational, in a two-fold way. Younger players are too use to the internet and are unsure about proper social etiquette, regardelss of it being virtual. While, some older players who have been playing MMOs from the begining might feel that everyone should be on their level. I think older players who have just jumped into these type of MMOs are the nicer people. They know social etiquette, and are new themselves so they bring the best of both worlds, lol.

[Zojha]

I like how the title implies bad and casual are synonymous.

The thing is: People with bad attitudes have bad attitudes. What skill level they have is largely irrelevant to that.

What does a player with a bad attitude do when he's matched against someone worse than him? "Pwn" the newbie, tell him how much he sucks, give him a teabagging and do rape and mother jokes.
What does the same player do when matched against someone better and getting "pwned" himself? Blame hacking, a broken mouse, bugs, the enemies strats and whatnot. Or, in a team game, the jungler.

You can give people tons of excessively detailed numerical feedback on their performance and all they'll do with it is to either use it to stroke their ego or rationalize it away if they have such an attitude. People with bad attitudes don't care about the facts, they care about their ego. Even in 1vs1 games, people will find something but themselves to blame for the defeat.

That said, players with such an attitude are more prone to be bad and players with good attitudes are more prone to be good. The reason is simple: Accepting blame doesn't feel good. People with bad attitudes thus will push the blame away from them to avoid it, while people with good attitudes will accept it and try to reduce their share of the blame, thus easing the feeling, by contributing more.

One last note: "Elitist" usually refers to people who think they are good and expect others to be good, rather than good players. You can be an elitist and still suck, which renders you a hypocrite.

[Vivi_Bushido]

I think part of the reason is that ps4 is a pretty big part of this games playerbase and majority of them have absolutely NO clue how much dps they actually do.

They think their hot shit when in reality they are doing less than that 'meh' geared paladin in shield oath. So they keep doing what their doing, thinking it's all good.

This is only part of it. There are tons of different reasons for this happening.

Basically I'll leave it at "bads will be bad"

While it's true that PS4 players can't see their DPS, a lot of the times, they actually parse equally to what PC players do; so your argument is kinda irrelevant to the OP's post and is possibly a personal vendetta towards the lesser console gamers.

I hate to say and admit that sadly this is true, with no real way gauge others' and their own performance people are shouting non sense all over the place without having numbers in their face and are also immune to the fact that if they do get numbers put in their face by the person defending their-self they'll get harassed even further and threatened with being reported.

It's funny you say that, cause a lot of people will tell me what my numbers are, but will flake the moment I ask for a screen cap as proof.

[Zeonx]

snip

I don't think of myself as really anything, just a gamer I guess who just wants to play a game that I pay for every month lol

Like I said yeah I tend to ignore it and laugh it off.

game shouldn't be like a 6 to 8 hour job with stress its supposed to be fun and I just think people forget that and are too involved with the game.

Though I do think elitist attitude can cause person to hate them after a while.

[Jamein]

Bad players will be bad.
Bad mouthers will bad mouth.

Good players need to continue to just facepalm when the 300 DPS dragoon talks smack to the tank doing more DPS than him.

Welcome to FFXIV.

[Talraen]

I think this problem stems from every part of the community. Experienced players tend to expect other players to know everything, while casual players tend to stay silent and not ask questions. The amount of times I've seen experienced tanks rush into content with non-obvious mechanics in spite of the 'new player' message, without ever asking if anyone is actually new, is staggering. But those new players often didn't say a simple 'hey I'm new here', either.

What ends up happening is these players don't really learn anything, get carried for a while without realizing it, and the first time they communicate with anyone is when their lack of knowledge starts to matter. And that communication takes the form of vitriolic criticism. If the only time anyone ever talks to you is to tell you how much you suck, you're going to get pretty defensive.

I realize nothing I say is going to change this, but experienced players need to actively try to help new players, from the get-go, and new players need to actively seek that help, also right from the start. If you see a tank in Sastasha who isn't even trying to hold hate, don't ignore it because it's just Sastasha and you'll win regardless. And if you're just starting out (and for some reason reading this thread) please just say "I'm new". I've rarely seen a run where there was any issue with a new player who actually said they were new. And for god's sake, if your issue is that you're on PS4 and can't type, either a.) buy a cheap USB keyboard, because this is an MMO, or b.) at LEAST make a macro announcing this is your first time and just hit that in new dungeons.

[Chiramu]

I think most bads are "hardcore" only because they have the ability to sit on their computers all day when other people have RL commitments. I have met a lot better and nicer players who are casual because they always do their best. The "hardcore" crowd is the toxic community.

Just because some people have Savage gear doesn't mean they've pulled their weight, the same with Final Coils, so many bads got carried through or paid their way through.

Everyone, don't lump people together into groups. If you're being a dick to people you are just a dick .