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  1. #41
    Player
    Delily's Avatar
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    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
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    666
    Character
    Delmania Shadowstar
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Velox View Post
    I think you are mistaking the implication and the point of the story. Technology and knowledge itself is not evil. It's a tool. How you use it is how it is defined. There is nothing wrong with rediscovering what Allag achieved. The point the game has made so far was not that "tech is bad, but do it anyway," but "This is what we built, but we lost sight of what was important. Instead of tech supplementing our lives, we grew dependent. Instead of living on this planet, we attempted domininance. Continue to grow, to learn what we learned, to achieve what we achieved, but now know how we failed so you can spare yourself our fate and surpass us one day."
    Binding primals to use as an aetheric source of energy constitutes as a Really Bad Idea. Not only do you make them upset in the event they are freed, they represent a constant drain on Hydalyen.
    Making pacts with a voidsent is also a Really Bad Idea. Allag was also involved in bioengineering. If anything, the lessons to be learned are to avoid doing what the empire did.
    (2)

  2. #42
    Player
    Echofalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    28
    Character
    Vairemont Sorel
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Velox View Post
    "This is what we built, but we lost sight of what was important. Instead of tech supplementing our lives, we grew dependent. Instead of living on this planet, we attempted domininance. Continue to grow, to learn what we learned, to achieve what we achieved, but now know how we failed so you can spare yourself our fate and surpass us one day."
    Perhaps, but it seems to me that either Allag was trying to make a last ditch attempt that something of their history would still be relevant when they were gone. Either that or;
    "Here's a great big solar panel! But you're not ready to use it yet, it might blow you all up. Have at it when you understand what you're doing It blew us all up too and we knew what we were doing? Yeah, um... oops?"
    It's like they went into a panic when they were worried that there might be a future where Eorzea wouldn't need them any more.... Hmm..

    We know that the Empire was tearing itself apart in a civil war during the last few years of its existence. Factions are inevitable, I think.
    (2)

  3. #43
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    3,514
    Character
    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Delily View Post
    Binding primals to use as an aetheric source of energy constitutes as a Really Bad Idea. Not only do you make them upset in the event they are freed, they represent a constant drain on Hydalyen.
    Making pacts with a voidsent is also a Really Bad Idea. Allag was also involved in bioengineering. If anything, the lessons to be learned are to avoid doing what the empire did.
    The Garleans sure don't think so, considering that it's worked for over a thousand years and serves to not only keep the primals in check, but to subdue them without any worry of them simply being resummoned.
    (0)
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  4. #44
    Player
    Fenral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    2,175
    Character
    W'fharl Tia
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Velox View Post
    "[...] Continue to grow, to learn what we learned, to achieve what we achieved, but now know how we failed so you can spare yourself our fate and surpass us one day."
    I think it went unnecessarily far in the "oh, no, we can't lose the tower" direction to support that interpretation. If they truly thought us capable of surpassing them, one of our companions wouldn't have forced himself into a coma to keep the tower itself from being lost, since there would be no need. Tools can be rebuilt and replaced, but people can't. Whatever the intent, that action itself carries the implication that the tools are more important than the people who use them.

    I think back on The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, where the King of Hyrule tells Link and Tetra to found a new kingdom, one that isn't Hyrule, but their own. I get the feeling something like that, with Doga and Unei addressing G'raha, would have been more appropriate to send that particular message.
    (0)
    あっきれた。

  5. #45
    Player
    Delily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    666
    Character
    Delmania Shadowstar
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Echofalls View Post
    Perhaps, but t seems to me that either Allag was trying to make a last ditch attempt that something of their history would still be relevant when they were gone. Either that or;
    "Here's a great big solar panel! But you're not ready to use it yet, it might blow you all up. Have at it when you understand what you're doing It blew us all up too and we knew what we were doing? Yeah, um... oops?"
    It's like they went into a panic when they were worried that there might be a future where Eorzea wouldn't need them any more.... Hmm..

    We know that the Empire was tearing itself apart in a civil war during the last few years of its existence. Factions are inevitable, I think.
    Xande was experiencing existential nihilism. After being revived by Amon, he concluded nothing he did was significant because he was going to die again. He came to the conclusion all existence is meaningless and activated Dalamud. The goal was to open the voidgate and allow the cloud in.
    (1)

  6. #46
    Player
    Delily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
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    666
    Character
    Delmania Shadowstar
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by RiceisNice View Post
    The Garleans sure don't think so, considering that it's worked for over a thousand years and serves to not only keep the primals in check, but to subdue them without any worry of them simply being resummoned.
    When did the Garleans become the model of good? The reality of what primals are, and the implications of their existence, was only recently revealed to us by Hraesvelgr.
    (2)

  7. #47
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    3,514
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    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Delily View Post
    When did the Garleans become the model of good? The reality of what primals are, and the implications of their existence, was only recently revealed to us by Hraesvelgr.
    Didn't say the solution was a good one, but a working one in their eyes. And even then, Dalamud was working fine until someone decided to bring it down.
    (0)
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  8. #48
    Player
    CGMidlander's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    1,819
    Character
    Height Error
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by RiceisNice View Post
    Didn't say the solution was a good one, but a working one in their eyes. And even then, Dalamud was working fine until someone decided to bring it down.
    Kind of like the concerns about nuclear reactors IRL.
    Dangerous stuff can be maintained and kept "safe", but somebody may eventually screw things up.
    (0)

  9. #49
    Player
    Velox's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Location
    Sharlayan
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    2,205
    Character
    Velo'a Nharoz
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Delily View Post
    Binding primals to use as an aetheric source of energy constitutes as a Really Bad Idea. Not only do you make them upset in the event they are freed, they represent a constant drain on Hydalyen.
    Making pacts with a voidsent is also a Really Bad Idea. Allag was also involved in bioengineering. If anything, the lessons to be learned are to avoid doing what the empire did.
    I've already covered that
    Quote Originally Posted by Velox View Post
    Instead of tech supplementing our lives, we grew dependent. Instead of living on this planet, we attempted domininance. Continue to grow, to learn what we learned, to achieve what we achieved, but now know how we failed so you can spare yourself our fate and surpass us one day."
    Both those tie into hubris. The technology to bind primals doesn't necessarily have to be used to bind primals. After all, nuclear fission was created to make a bomb, but we turned it into a clean and efficient form of energy. As I said, technology is neutral. It's just a tool, nothing more nothing less. It's HOW you use it.

    And the whole incident with the Void was NOT the Allagan Empire, it was a madman's idea. You don't blame the many for the actions of a few.
    (2)
    Last edited by Velox; 11-04-2015 at 05:26 AM.

  10. #50
    Player
    RiceisNice's Avatar
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    Jul 2014
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    Flo Fyloord
    World
    Famfrit
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    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by CGMidlander View Post
    Kind of like the concerns about nuclear reactors IRL.
    Dangerous stuff can be maintained and kept "safe", but somebody may eventually screw things up.
    And in the case of Dalamud, non-allagans screwing up allagan stuff.
    (0)
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