Immersion, The Facts & Fiction

[Reabs]

Immersion is something created by the game devs. Its what brings a game a good review. If this wasn't true than games would be reviewed on gameplay alone, and they are not.

Immersion is only a part of what brings a game a good review especially since gameplay alone can create immersion so games can have good reviews and it not be based wholly on immersion (Being that the immersion only exists because the gameplay exists). Unless your trying to say gameplay does not create immersion (In that case some of the best games of all time have no immersion because they are pure gameplay)

Back to the original topic. The def. of immersion based on your link is "To engage wholly or deeply; absorb" if they add something like a minimap and that stops someone from "engaging wholly" then clearly that took away from the immersion instead of adding to it (At least for that player). I don't see how you can possibly argue that anything they add will add to immersion when anything they add could stop someone from engaging wholly?

What I think is your confusing someone being immersed (Ex they accept the game now and all aspects of it and engage wholly) vs. something changing the state of possible immersion (Ex. you add minimap player A is no longer engaged wholly while player B now is engaged wholly therefor the minimap changed the state of immersion). Your making a pretty big assumption that anyone who plays this game will be immersed("To engage wholly or deeply; absorb") regardless of the content of the game but this just is not the case and whenever anything is changed in the game someone who possibly was immersed will no longer be immersed and a player who wasn't immersed could possibly become immersed.

P.S. if someone already mentioned this sorry I didn't read all the post.

[Konachibi]

on the first page, im pretty sure my second post currently has more "likes" than yours does. so why would i stop if people seem to agree?

Oh and btw, if there was also a dislike button I'm fairly sure your 'immersion' thread would have it's dislikes well into the 3 digit area by now. Go and count the amount of threads there with people agreeing, then count the disagreeing, seriously, go do it, like, right now. I think you might be surprised at how many people hate your idea.

[Konachibi]

Immersion is only a part of what brings a game a good review especially since gameplay alone can create immersion so games can have good reviews and it not be based wholly on immersion (Being that the immersion only exists because the gameplay exists). Unless your trying to say gameplay does not create immersion (In that case some of the best games of all time have no immersion because they are pure gameplay)

Back to the original topic. The def. of immersion based on your link is "To engage wholly or deeply; absorb" if they add something like a minimap and that stops someone from "engaging wholly" then clearly that took away from the immersion instead of adding to it (At least for that player). I don't see how you can possibly argue that anything they add will add to immersion when anything they add could stop someone from engaging wholly?

What I think is your confusing someone being immersed (Ex they accept the game now and all aspects of it and engage wholly) vs. something changing the state of possible immersion (Ex. you add minimap player A is no longer engaged wholly while player B now is engaged wholly therefor the minimap changed the state of immersion). Your making a pretty big assumption that anyone who plays this game will be immersed("To engage wholly or deeply; absorb") regardless of the content of the game but this just is not the case and whenever anything is changed in the game someone who possibly was immersed will no longer be immersed and a player who wasn't immersed could possibly become immersed.

P.S. if someone already mentioned this sorry I didn't read all the post.

Yeah it was mentioned, no worries, the whole mini-map thing was the case that immersion one a player-to-player basis was subjective. the player only felt immersed if they allowed themselves to be immersed, if they didn't, that's their own fault, not the games. The assumption is that anyone who plays the game could be immersed, if they didn't let little things like a mini-map or a *skip cutscene* button bother them so much. They're only small little things, so bickering over them and demanding their removal just seems kind of childish, and selfish, because other players appreciate that these things are here.

Just a run down on our little 'debate' thus far

[Synapse]

Players want instant gratification, its simple, thats how the new player base are.

my gaps between playtime is slowly increasing :/, lets see how easier the patch 1.19 makes the game.

[tymora]

Regarding realism in fantasy, please read up "plausible fantasy".

it can be as unrealistic and fantastical as it wishes to be.

This is true only if the world lore accounts for it in some way.
"Magic" and "Gods" allow for quite a bit of leeway in this respect but there are still some boundaries to be respected.

[Azurymber]

Players want instant gratification, its simple, thats how the new player base are.

my gaps between playtime is slowly increasing :/, lets see how easier the patch 1.19 makes the game.

yeah i feel the same way. I don't think easymoding the game will improve it either, just make people get bored and quit faster.

[Konachibi]

And my final part on 'The Immersion Arguement' is:

Virtual Reality Immersion

I'd like to point your attention to this particular bit on this page:

The term is widely used for describing immersive virtual reality, installation art and video games, but it is not clear if people are using the same word consistently. The term is also cited as a frequently-used buzzword, in which case its meaning is intentionally vague, but carries the connotation of being particularly engrossing.

The sensation of total immersion in virtual reality (VR) can be described as implied complete presence within an insinuated space of a virtual surrounding where everything within that sphere relates necessarily to the proposed "reality" of that world's cyberspace and where the immersant is seemingly altogether disconnected from exterior physical space.

Now, to be more constructive can we offer suggestions on how to improve the play-to-play immersiveness of the game instead of bickering over what one simple word means?

[Dargoth_Draconia]

I hope when the PS3 launches some new servers come up that noone can transfer onto. That way the servers will be new fresh and no max level players and if you want to reroll over there you have the option to do so. If they do that I shall make the All-Stars

[Rhomagus]

Regarding realism in fantasy, please read up "plausible fantasy".


This is true only if the world lore accounts for it in some way.
"Magic" and "Gods" allow for quite a bit of leeway in this respect but there are still some boundaries to be respected.

A way to instantly transport is in the lore. That's like saying Star Trek ruins immersion by teleporting.

The game also utilizes cutscenes to present certain aspects of the story.

There are instances where your character is knocked out but you wake up somewhere else in mere seconds. The depiction of that time is not visually presented to you even though you can play in third person.

When your character is knocked out you can view your unconscious body from the third person view.

[Azurymber]

And my final part on 'The Immersion Arguement' is:

Virtual Reality Immersion

I'd like to point your attention to this particular bit on this page:

The term is widely used for describing immersive virtual reality, installation art and video games, but it is not clear if people are using the same word consistently. The term is also cited as a frequently-used buzzword, in which case its meaning is intentionally vague, but carries the connotation of being particularly engrossing.

The sensation of total immersion in virtual reality (VR) can be described as implied complete presence within an insinuated space of a virtual surrounding where everything within that sphere relates necessarily to the proposed "reality" of that world's cyberspace and where the immersant is seemingly altogether disconnected from exterior physical space.

Now, to be more constructive can we offer suggestions on how to improve the play-to-play immersiveness of the game instead of bickering over what one simple word means?

wasn't the whole point of this thread to bicker over a definition? Or did you think everyone would just agree with you automatically