Immersion, The Facts & Fiction

[Konachibi]

This post is to give people a defined definition of the word 'immersion'. It is designed to STOP people raging on about immersion.

As I write it I will add links and information showing what I say is fact so that there can not be any arguement that what I am saying is incorrect, or that I am trolling, or making grounds to cause an arguement.
This post is simply to help people better understand the word so that when they come to use it they will know if they are utilising it correctly in their post.

As I've been scanning through the forums (and saying a lot in them) I've seen the word 'immersion' pop up a lot, usually in the form of an arguement stating that some part of the UI or mechanics in FFXIV decreases the immersion within the game.

However this is not the case.

To be immersed in something means to engross yourself in it, to take the content that is given to you, accept it's many aspects, and let it suck you in.

The definition of immersion

This means that to be immersed in something is, in a sense, a totalitary. This would mean that anything and everything featured in FFXIV is all part of it's immersion, simply by it's existance.

One cannot argue for instance that the mini-map in FFXIV decreases the immersion. The fact that it is in the game means it is PART OF the game, therefore, it is part of the immersion.
One cannot argue that teleporting in FFXIV decreases the immersion.
It is in the game, it is part of the game, it is part of it's immersion.
If these arguements had factual grounds with which to base the arguement on then would it not also be the case that having a soundtrack play also decreases it's immersion? Or that enemies dissapear after they've been defeated? Or that you're able to target things instead of having to find some way to attack your enemy within telling the game what you want to attack?
These things are all adding to the immersion, not decreasing it.
The only thing someone could argue about things such as this is that no explaination is given for some of it. However that does not mean that it is not part of the immersion, simply that you do not know why it is there or why it is possible.
No one really knows how our universe came into existence, but that does not mean we are not immersed in it. We have to be immersed in it, because we are part of it's totality.

This is a fantasy game after all, fantasy is not designed to be realistic and as such can feature content that, by our standards, would seem strange or impossible.
There is no grounds to say that in a fantasy world it is wrong to have some kind of mini-map within their eye-sight that allows them to navigate the geography of the place they are in.
There is no grounds to say that in a fantasy world everyone within it would have a means to instantly transport themselves from one place to another.

Because these things exist within FFXIV only adds to it's fantasy, and thus, it's immersion within the fantasy.

The definition of fantasy

To say to remove these things would lean more towards you wishing for more realism in the game. However, as stated, this is a fantasy game, that is why it's called Final Fantasy. Because it is a fantasy world in a fantasy game, it can be as unrealistic and fantastical as it wishes to be. This is how it is able to feature cat girls, dragons, airships, leviathan, elementals, monsters, spells, and even a user interface, mini-map, inventory window, and even a soundtrack.

You cannot dictate the immersion of a fantasy world, or what a fantasy world has and doesn't have unless you create it yourself. None of us players created Final Fantasy XIV, so it is not our right to dictate what it can and cannot have, we can only suggest what we think it would be good to have or not have. Only Square Enix are within their right to say what this game can and cannot feature.

This is what these forums are designed for. To discuss and suggest things, not to demand removal or addition of content.

The definition of realism

The only thing that can cause you to be immersed in FFXIV is your own willingness to. If you cannot become immersed in it, it is because you cannot accept it or something within it. This is not because of something that is contained within the game, this is your own inability to accept something. Therefore the game is not at fault, blame cannot be thrown at it or the developers. Your lack of immersion in the game is your own fault. If it were possible to put a numbered percentage on the games current immersion it would be at a constant 100% no matter what anyone argued otherwise. It is at 100% simply by it existing and allowing people to play it.

I hope this information is helpful and useful, and hopefully will stop people using 'immersion' as a means to argue about the game and it's contents. Should you see someone use 'immersion' as part of an arguement in a thread and they are utilising the word incorrectly, as so many already do, please point them towards this thread, and hopefully that should allow the thread to continue in a calm and pleasant debate, rather than the flaming, trolling arguement those threads tend to nosedive into whenever 'immersion' is used.

Thank you for reading,

Konachibi
xxxx

P.S Please don't flame this thread, the information I have provided is based off the English definition of the word 'immersion' as seen in the first link provided. If you cannot accept that the word means what it does, that is your problem and your own lack of understanding the language that you are speaking. It is not means to start an arguement.

[Azurymber]

One cannot argue for instance that the mini-map in FFXIV decreases the immersion. The fact that it is in the game means it is PART OF the game, therefore, it is part of the immersion.
One cannot argue that teleporting in FFXIV decreases the immersion.
It is in the game, it is part of the game, it is part of it's immersion.
If these arguements had factual grounds with which to base the arguement on then would it not also be the case that having a soundtrack play also decreases it's immersion? Or that enemies dissapear after they've been defeated? Or that you're able to target things instead of having to find some way to attack your enemy within telling the game what you want to attack?
These things are all adding to the immersion, not decreasing it.

So if SE were to add a black box over half the screen with the BBC news, that wouldn't remove any sense of immersion to you. because it would be part of the game?

im·merse:
To engage wholly or deeply; absorb: scholars who immerse themselves in their subjects.

to immerse yourself in a game, or similarly in real life in a subject, you essentially forget about the world around you, forget about stress and worries, and transfer all your focus to the game or subject or book or whatever.

Immersion is a feeling.

So if the game does something that prevents someone from attaining that feeling on a neural basis, they are hurting the immersion that the game is designed to provide.

Put another way, a truly immersive game would be like one of those arcade games where you sit in a realistic cockpit and get a 360-screen-view around you so it feels like you are actually flying.

FFXIV will never be able to reach that level without true virtual reality, but there are certain things that will psychologically make a player feel more immersed in the world.

Sense of an actual world is one of these. When you have to run from place to place it creates psychologically makes the game feel larger and more alive to you because you are forced to travel and experience it.
Instant porting on the other hand makes the game feel like a series of levels and un-connected pscyhologically.

edit:
another way to argue it would be that if you took harry potter, and had the author randomly write what she was thinking when she wrote each line. "Ron attacked harry screaming you pervert." "Here I wanted to show the angst in teenage love".
The disconnect provided by the authors commentary would detract from the immersion provided by the story.

much like a instant map in a game may detract from the immersion of a game if one focuses on it rather than the game itself.

So I'm sorry but your argument about immersion in incorrect

[Gramul]

immersion

HIT THE DECK!

[Konachibi]

You are talking about becoming immersed in a world.

FFXIV is a game with a world.

The only way to become immersed in FFXIV's world is if the game was removed.

And even if you did that people would still be able to teleport, because it is part of the world, not just the game.

Your STATEMENT is incorrect.

[weeble]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2gzRQ5f3No this is immersion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQvnZOR_oIk and this is fact

[Konachibi]

HIT THE DECK!

Awesome reply, I lolled a lot XD

[PrettyPrincess]

I never want to see this word again ever

[Konachibi]

I never want to see this word again ever

Me either, that's why I made this thread, to try and stop people using it incorrectly all the time. If they used it right, you'd hardly ever see anyone use it.

[Chocobits]

If people were truly immersed in the game, they would spend more time playing it than they do requesting fixes for known issues. It's hard to immerse yourself in any application that crashes to the desktop with Alt+Tab. It's hard to immerse yourself in a game with copypasta'd terrains - UNLESS you're playing a custom adventure you made with RPG Maker '95. Although the world map for FFXIV could very well have been created using RPG Maker.

It's hard to immerse yourself in a world where grinding and leveling up quests comprise the majority of the content. FFXI used the exp grind as an incentive to reach the level cap, which unlocked worlds of possibilities.

Also, when FFXI was a year old, its players had: Sky, BCNMs, Dynamis, 12 jobs to choose from, Chocobos, Airships, an engaging expansion storyline not tied to any city, a working party system, an awesome search function, Teleport spells, Warp spells, realistic real-time battles not severely inhibited by server lag, a (mostly) intuitive menu, a comfortable console style interface, collision detection, a great targeting system that differentiated between friend and foe, the ability to quickly engage enemies, about 40 unique full zones (not including battlefield/misc zones), 4 major cities (Windurst, Bastok, San d'Oria and Jeuno) and 5 "settlements" (Selbina, Mhaura, Norg, Kazham, Rabao) which were more than a dumpy building by the side of the road; those are what we'd call "outposts" in FFXI, 6 amazing beastmen stronghold zones that are entire zones unto themselves and not just blips on the world map, and an awesome subjob system that allowed you to specialize your job by tacking on the abilities of 1 other job, up to half the level cap of your "main" job. IE If you had Ranger 60 and Warrior 45, when you changed to RNG/WAR you would be RNG 60/WAR 30. No abilities or spells to tack on, they were just there. Oh, and you also got all the spells/abilities available to a class given to you, not having to pick and choose them.

So, a year later in FFXIV, we have: Leve quests, no transportation whatsoever except a ferry and a broken anima system, the Garlean invasion miniquest, the Grand Companies which some instanced raids, Market Wards with PITA item search and repetitive zoning, no party search/flag function, improper mob AI and every mob mysteriously uses ranged attacks, no collision detection, Behest, no major expansion, a world map consisting of about a dozen "zones" which are really just long, visually repetitive stretches of essentially nothing to get from point A to point B, with such clever names as "North Shroud", "South Shroud" "East Thanalan" etc ad infinitum, a few "mines" which are just lines on graph paper, seriously you can see the graph paper when you look at the map, little visual difference between weapon swing and weaponskill animations, lag, the most terrible UI I've yet to see in any game, and finally, an awkward armory system that requires you to level nearly every class to cap to maximize your potential at any class and even then having a severe limit on how many abilities you can equip AND a penalty placed on equipped abilities/spells not available to your main class.

My counter argument to this entire thread is: how can anyone find the current system immersive? Granted, the game has come quite a long way from the trainwreck it was, but yeah, it will be months before ANYONE should be throwing around the term "immersion". We just barely got out of Alpha with 1.18, and with 1.19 we're trucking right into Beta. When get to 1.20 Beta 2, THEN we can start talking about immersion. Until then, please develop a severe case of hydrophobia and hope this sinking ship can get bailed out faster than it sinks, or we'll all be up to our necks in "immersion".

[StellarDissociative]

Thank you Konata Chibi. Your analogy of the Universe was excellent! It made me create my forum profile lol. It makes great logical sense; however, I do doubt it will stop the improper use of the word. Once the "creator(s)" tell us what we have to accept, regardless of the fact that it has not and never will be within 'our' black or white choice, it may simmer down to a slow burning ember.