parse for ps4 users !

[Vagdal]

snip

Funny you brought this up because since ive been playing XIV ive seen much more of these cases rather than pure harassment over low numbers.
I dont think it matters whether they allow some form of Meters or not cause it isnt going to change anything. You cannot exclude people from DF cause how would that work exactly and for PF theres aleady Ilvl Requirements or "No tome bonus" to begin with.

Personal parsers wont make a diffrence at all cause anyone can just make up a number and how are you going to hold them accountable if you cant see them in first place. Without group wide numbers all that personal parser accomplishes it gives you some sort of number that without proper context serves as no indicator of how well youre doing comapared to you group members or even people playing same class as you do.

So even If they allowed parsers or put them into game themeselves whats the big problem then? Sure some people might be right to call you out on your numbers but that doesnt them right to give you shit about that. You keep the punishment the same afterall youre dealing with assholes regardless if they have meters or not.

[Gilraen]

I think we can all now agree to disagree and let this tangent of a thread lie, Chif has gotten himself banned thanks to that link he posted. I tried to warn him... I think we all tried to talk sense into him, but he didn't want to listen to anyone but the sound of his own 'awesome'. This 'debate' will keep 'raging' for pages on end so now that the instigator is taking a mandatory break from the forums how about we bow out of this discussion as well.

[StrejdaTom]

My own experience in other MMOs is, that addons telling you DPS don't lead to much more harrassment than usual, but to improvement in midcore and hardcore content.
Some people feel the need to harrass others and they will always find a reason, DPS is only one of them, I have seen people being harrassed for hundreds of reasons (mostly by people who run 10 dungeons a day but haven't even completed T13 and need to prove something to themselves).

Only way to give PS3/4 DPS meter is, when SE decides to put it into the game client. That way also PC players could finally use it without the constant fear of getting banned and people could finally discuss job performance and suggestions properly.
IMO there are way more pros than cons for official DPS meter. People, who like to turn off their brain in dungeons and click 2 skills are afraid of it, but let me tell you one thing, people can notice that even without DPS meters and most probably in your every dungeon run there is someone with DPS meter, they just don't care, because they know what they are going into every time they enter roulette via DF.

[raelgun]

I think we can all now agree to disagree and let this tangent of a thread lie, Chif has gotten himself banned thanks to that link he posted. I tried to warn him... I think we all tried to talk sense into him, but he didn't want to listen to anyone but the sound of his own 'awesome'. This 'debate' will keep 'raging' for pages on end so now that the instigator is taking a mandatory break from the forums how about we bow out of this discussion as well.

People were loud enough about nerfs and increasing primal mount drops, why should this thread lie dead? Its useful information for SE, its always funny that when people make good points a lot about dps parsers, theres always someone trying to close the thread.

[Malevicton]

Problem with agreeing to disagree, while normally laudable, is that 1 side holds all the cards right now. People are asking for something to be changed, so if we agree to just drop the topic then it won't be and the people who don't want it to be changed get what they want while the other side gets nothing.

[Gilraen]

...theres always someone trying to close the thread.

True, many good and bad points have been made on either side, but the person who was trying the hardest to close the thread is gone now. I'm not calling to close the thread, but every point that can be made on the subject has been made repeatedly and we're on our... third? Fourth rotation of the same arguments both for and against. This is the sad fate of every thread about parsers. Right now I think Square has the better notion here, if rumors are to be believed, that there will be some kind of parsing mini-game in the Gold Saucer. Full access no matter the console. Anything more than that and we're back to the lab again...

[Whiteroom]

True, many good and bad points have been made on either side, but the person who was trying the hardest to close the thread is gone now. I'm not calling to close the thread, but every point that can be made on the subject has been made repeatedly and we're on our... third? Fourth rotation of the same arguments both for and against. This is the sad fate of every thread about parsers. Right now I think Square has the better notion here, if rumors are to be believed, that there will be some kind of parsing mini-game in the Gold Saucer. Full access no matter the console. Anything more than that and we're back to the lab again...

You are actively trying to make this thread and the one about having the otpion too block first time runners from farm parties. Why are you so against giving players tools to preform better in their runs? Both of these tool would hinder trolls from getting others to play the game for them is the common theme.

I find that someone would actively try to bury requests for tools for player improvement interesting.


Of course they rotate through arguments. As long as the words are twisted or the arguments ignored, it wont move past them. And if this were to close, a new thread would pop up tomorrow. And they will continue to pop up for as long as uncleared dps checks and low perfoming dps are a major frustration.

[Whiteroom]

I wonder how many of the cases in which players have "witnessed parsers causing harassment" have actually been situations where parser hasn't even been used. Yesterday I was doing Alexander (normal) and during one disasterous floor 2 run a melee DD refused to drive the gobwalker because "he was doing 200 more DPS than the NIN". Now this situation could be read as someone who's parsing gloating their superiority. Only there wasn't really any significant difference in DPS between the two. The problem is, no one could point that out because we don't have official parsers.

I've seen similar situations before, once in Ravana (normal) when the party had trouble killing the ganas, and after two wipes one DD left shouting at other DDs how much they suck. Yeah they weren't good, but the person who left was actually the one with the lowest DPS. Similarly once in the Aery, the two DDs in the party were unable to kill the "prisons" during the last boss, even with help from the healer, and one of the DDs called the other one out for low DPS and proceeded to kick them (it succeeded even though I voted against it). Guess what, the person who did the kicking and called the other DD bad was again doing less than the person who got kicked (though neither of them were doing what they should have been). Of course we got a better second DD to replace the one who got kicked and proceeded to clear it without issues, so the remaining original DD probably thought there was nothing wrong with his performance and he had been right to kick the "bad" one.

These are just individual situations I've seen, but I'm sure they don't end here. With a parser these kind of baseless accusations can be prevented and all the discussions on group's DPS failures will be based on facts. I consider that to be the fairest situation for everyone.

There was a thread posted from reddit about this issue. The OP did 100 Alex NM runs and recored what happened. There were something like 16 cases of low perrforming dps accusing the higher performing dps of sucking and being at fault. There were also a number of cases of the low performing dps iniating a kick against the higher performing one.

The argument that parsers would prevent this harassment was largely ignored and discarded.

Haha thanks for editing while i was typing a reply, got confused for a second there

Multi-editing posts is becoming a tiresome specialty of mine since I'm phone posting.

I still need to resond to kosmos' last post. I just need a coffee before I can get into editing quotes. That 1000 char limit really hinders debate.

[Eidolon]

Would definitely welcome a HUD option to add a parse to the screen. Being able to see your output in contrast to others in real time helps you in finding where you should be pulling.

My friend is trying to learn BRD/MCH 60. They feel low on damage and if the people of this topic had it their way - they wouldn't be allowed to test self improvements.

[XiXiQ]

There were also a number of cases of the low performing dps iniating a kick against the higher performing one.

how on earth does anyone know who initiated the kick?