IMO - If this game is to stay relevant - the gameplay needs a massive overhaul

[Zumi]

A lot of people like myself are completely happy with the game and think the dev team is doing a great job. My server seems pretty full of people so all these doom and gloom threads are unfounded. Very much looking forward to playing the new patch.

[Shurrikhan]

Gameplay Only Devs (B&S/Tera/PSO2) don't learn from Content Devs (FF/WoW/Etc) and vice versa

This is why Action MMOs never have content outside of gear grinding, the two will forever be segregated.

I have yet to see content outside of gear-grinding be separated by whether the game used tabbing and locked targeting vs. forward-aim and active dodging... and certainly not because one side focused solely on gameplay while the other focused purely on content.
That said, real content outside of gear- or PvP rank-grinding seems painfully rare to any MMO.

[Xatsh]

To respond to Einheri

Does horizontal count if none of the rewards are top tier? NO this is the definition of linear content. When 1 content has the end all be all. Most people's issue with savage alex is it is way too overtuned for the gears longevity and it is way too restrictive on who you can bring in. "aka massive penalties for running without your static".

It is not about not wanting to raid. It is "I do not want to spend 100-200hrs on 1 piece of content strait." That is the problem. It is very hard content that takes a hell of lot of work to clear... but the rewards are extremely short lived. UP to this point I have cleared all content that rewards gear, still working on Alex, but the coils I have cleared them all pre-nerf... NONE of them were worth it but it was all there was. 100s of hours completely wasted for what is now vanity gear / desynth gear. <= that is the problem with verticle content and FFXIV. I am not the only one who feels this way.

In a more horizontal world 50% would be negated for newer gear in 3.2, but some of the work you did for 3.0 would still be BIS. Then in 3.4 70-80% would be negated but still there is BIS gear. Doing this model none of your work is 100% removed. One top of that all content would have valid endgame gear... not "Catch up gear". The problem is the limited stats FFXIV has is currently preventing a model like this because you are extremely limited on what you can do. A Pure horizontal is just as bad as pure vertical we need to reduce the gear negation and add 5xs the options of getting BIS gear outside a 8man savage raid (Instance boss fight).

The solution is for some BIS gear to come from Alex savage, Some BIS gear come from X content, Some BIS gear come from Y Content, and Some BIS come from Z content. And no that does not mean put tokens in everything that lead to 1 piece. Savage Ark with I210 gear would be acceptable in my eyes if it is was not face roll. Would be a different content hard 24man ect. Could combine that with airship exploration for chance at 210 gear and you now have 4 valid endgame gear solutions instead of 2. Add in guild leves where you trade in a ton of guild points to spawn rare mobs that take multiple partys from your guild. (HNM Guild Leves for lack of a better term). Make them drop some BIS gear. Now you have 5 instead of 2. And the content that is worth doing that is rewarding goes up.

Would people play something if it was just fun with no reward? The answer is people would do it once to experience it then never do it again or very rarely do it again. MMOs are about the growth of your character and your group. IF content has 0 relevance to this then the content is considered "Negated" and it will not be done unless a reward is added. At least this is fact by the majority. To see my point how many people run Coil 2 still for the fun of it? or Crystal tower for the fun of it? The answer is a fraction of a percent of the population.

[iambanana]

Does it count as horizontal content if the rewards are not the highest item level? Or does horizontal just mean I don't want to raid but I want raid level gear?

for me, horizontal is not like that, like the crafter status of choice in my post earlier, battle class need the choice like that too. for example for a attack focused gear and defense focused gear, and mix and match based on status needed. we can choose between clear the dungeon faster but have more risk to fail, or safer but slower.

but for now, even we have choice, its useless, the meta right now is DPS or dead.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I was disappointed they didn't implement a void ark savage mode. Having another piece of savage Alex difficulty content would have been nice and give a 3 rd option to gear max ilvl

Why would they make even more content that very few people would complete? It'd be an absolute nightmare trying to get a static for 24 people that can share the same schedule and I'd imagine all the rage and wipes that'd happen in a 24 man savage if just one person screwed up. People who wanted the rewards from a savage raid would probably just stick to Alexander to get things done faster.

If Crystal Tower never got a savage mode, then neither will Void Ark.

[Yaichiro]

A lot of people like myself are completely happy with the game and think the dev team is doing a great job. My server seems pretty full of people so all these doom and gloom threads are unfounded. Very much looking forward to playing the new patch.

I swear I've read this exact post in every MMO that had to go F2P afterwards due to lack of subscribers.

[Iromi]

A lot of people like myself are completely happy with the game and think the dev team is doing a great job. My server seems pretty full of people so all these doom and gloom threads are unfounded. Very much looking forward to playing the new patch.

No not at all...we are on the same server and I've noticed a massive drop of people. Empty FC's, and idyleshire is pretty empty. In fact I took screen shots during prime time to show my friends who quit how empty it is.

[Zumi]

Does it count as horizontal content if the rewards are not the highest item level? Or does horizontal just mean I don't want to raid but I want raid level gear?

I was disappointed they didn't implement a void ark savage mode. Having another piece of savage Alex difficulty content would have been nice and give a 3 rd option to gear max ilvl.

Devs can't keep up with the consumption of the players, give us the tools make content. player generated quests and adventures. But this brings me to ask if the game is fun would you play it if the rewards were playing?

is non equipment based content worthless fluff? Or should the game move more to a living world where there are things to do that aren't murdering everything in our path?

What FFXI does is they keep the level cap at a certain level a very long time doesn't make more powerful gear because there is this artificial cap. There was basically 3 gear eras in FFXI the 75 era (8 years), the 99 era (3 years), and the 119 era (current 2.5 years). A gear reset happened in between each era but each gearing era lasted a long time. Basically they keep releasing gear at the level cap with very minor increases in power and often gear enhanced an ability which would be required to be macroed in because you could swap gear in on the fly.

There were 3 sets of job specific gear, called artifact, relic, and empyrean gear often called AF1, AF2, AF3 that were always upgraded to the new levels. You pretty much have to go back and do the old content if you want to get the newest highest level content.

For example here is the paladin sets of gear all at 119 which require like 3-4 steps to get there.

Paladin AF1. https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Reverence_Armor_Set_%2B1
1. do level 60 quests for lv 50-60 gear
2. do a level 75 instance called limbus for currency and upgrade items to upgrade to 75
3. do level 99 bcnm for upgrade items to upgrade to i109
4. do level 119 bcnm fights for upgrade items i119

Paladin AF2 https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Caballarius_Armor_Set_%2B1
1. get a drop in dynamis a level 75 instance
2. farm a currency and upgrade items in another dynamis zone to +1 your gear
3. back again to farm higher lv 99 mobs for upgrade items to level 99+2 your gear
4. do lv99 bcnms to upgrade to ilvl 109
5. do lv119 bcnms for uprade items to ilvl 119 the gear

Paladin AF3 https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Chevalier's_Armor_Set_%2B1
1. Go to abyssea kill NMs, farm trash mobs ect for base AF3 gear
2. Farm harder NMs to gain lv90+2 versoins of the gear
3. Farm lv99 bcnms to i109 the gear and do more abysssea for certain upgrade items.
4. Do an 18 man instance called Vagary for upgrade items to i119 the gear.

Now then the major problem with this is you have to keep going back to do old content that not many people are willing to do if you are a new player and don't already have this done making the game very hard to get into. If you look at the stats between the 3 sets of paladin gear you can see they are fairly similar except they all enchance a trait or have some special effect that you would macro in when you used the ability so that would make people want all the gear so they can go crazy with macros and always be swaping gear for every action you took.

[Zumi]

No not at all...we are on the same server and I've noticed a massive drop of people. Empty FC's, and idyleshire is pretty empty. In fact I took screen shots during prime time to show my friends who quit how empty it is.

I just checked idyleshire and its pretty full even at 11:20pm on a weekday when a lot of people sleep. Maybe you need a new FC mine usually has like 20-30 people on and we don't really recruit people anymore.

[YuiKitahara]

I've played two years since beta test and have seen friends quit one by one, I agree the game needs some changes. But not the battle system.
Personally I'd like to try more exploration content than doing dailies, how we use skills to fight a monster is not that important because this is a MMORPG, not action game.