gender equality and social disorder

[Savagelf]

this more please the japenese players. they culture is very different for are, and ever are own culture has argument over me personal i don't find accept for male to go to woman bathroom. for example and i think have men wear female armor isn't something i want see. to honest you could make armor the those in Scotland wear dance and that be as bad to me. the fact that this game Rated T we must also respect that and also no game of ff series has every been rating M mind you

[Colorful]

no game of ff series has every been rating M mind you

I'm not one to enjoy seeing Roe's crossdressing in pretty pink clothes (subligar pushes it a tad), but this is wrong here in Australia and I'd imagine other places too. Type 0 is MA-15+, FF13 is M rated and FFX-HD is M. Those are the ones currently in stock in store that I can quickly check. If you mean FFXIV, then yes both ARR and Heavensward are PG-13.

[Savagelf]

Mind you it hard enough for Square Enix to keep ffxiv at rated PG-13 mind you. i remember Yoshi P tell us that before ffxiv launch and how they facting in marriage at that point. I think this issue problem would be to end without ask for more. then what has been give.

I happen to be a Guy out respect for female i wan't really one to dress my character in most reveal fashion. i got rule of thumb if i don't want my future girl friend wear what my character wear then i won't dress her in it

[Zumi]

I'm not one to enjoy seeing Roe's crossdressing in pretty pink clothes (subligar pushes it a tad), but this is wrong here in Australia and I'd imagine other places too. Type 0 is MA-15+, FF13 is M rated and FFX-HD is M. Those are the ones currently in stock in store that I can quickly check. If you mean FFXIV, then yes both ARR and Heavensward are PG-13.

All those games are rated T except for Type 0 which is rated M for obvious reasons.

[karateorangutang]

All those games are rated T except for Type 0 which is rated M for obvious reasons.

In the US system they are T. In Australia they are indeed rated M.

[Noxifer]

this more please the japenese players. they culture is very different for are, and ever are own culture has argument over me personal i don't find accept for male to go to woman bathroom. for example and i think have men wear female armor isn't something i want see. to honest you could make armor the those in Scotland wear dance and that be as bad to me. the fact that this game Rated T we must also respect that and also no game of ff series has every been rating M mind you

First of all, opening up gearsets or providing equal amounts of gearsets for male and female characters does in no way mean "men going to women's bathrooms". Or does a woman wearing pants mean she goes to the men's bathroom? The male gearsets were made unisex, after all.
I'm not saying they have to open them up as-is -- while I personally would like that, I can also understand that it would be highly controversial. But just like how they made minor changes to male gearsets (adding bras, showing more cleavage, things like that), they could also make adjustments to the currently female-only gearsets.

Secondly, what does clothing options have to do with the game's rating? And how would a female character in lingerie be more acceptable for a T rating than a male character in, for example, a floorlong loincloth and jewelry (thavnairian bustier)?
The Spring Dress is no more 'wrong' for a man to wear than the Scylla Robes or the AST AF or any number of frilly robes in this game. The only big difference is that it has the word 'dress' in the name.

And thirdly, as the posts above mine make clear, ratings differ slightly depending on which area you live in.

Mind you it hard enough for Square Enix to keep ffxiv at rated PG-13 mind you. i remember Yoshi P tell us that before ffxiv launch and how they facting in marriage at that point. I think this issue problem would be to end without ask for more. then what has been give.

I happen to be a Guy out respect for female i wan't really one to dress my character in most reveal fashion. i got rule of thumb if i don't want my future girl friend wear what my character wear then i won't dress her in it

I don't agree with the sentiment that this issue would go away if we stop asking for it to go away.

I happen to be a guy too. I don't see what it has to do with this, though. What you choose to dress your character in doesn't change the fact that your character has more outfits available than mine has. I'd like our characters to have an equal amount of outfits.

[Colorful]

All those games are rated T except for Type 0 which is rated M for obvious reasons.

I guess Australia's rating are still as wonky as ever in that regard, but then I'd think our M rating is more comparative with America's T rating which confused me a bit. But still, Type 0 is a Final Fantasy game and is rated higher than T/M.

[AskaRay]

I happen to be a Guy out respect for female i wan't really one to dress my character in most reveal fashion. i got rule of thumb if i don't want my future girl friend wear what my character wear then i won't dress her in it

Not too sure what this says about me since as a girl, I like to dress my catboy in pretty revealing things.....
but to be fair I dress my retainers (all women except for one) in pretty skimpy things too. Probably precisely because I can't/don't want to wear that stuff for real.

[Evantide]

Final Fantasy 14, the end of a legacy. How did it end you say?
Well, the devs eventually stopped producing new gameplay content so that all development could go towards the pressing matter of men being able to wear dresses.

Then, all of the people that play the game quit over the fact that there were no new dungeons, quests, or anything else that was fun.

[SchalaZeal]

which wouldn't be such a loaded thing to do if it hadn't been for the long struggle for women to get out of being 'property'.

Besides slave women and slave men, I doubt women have been property, any more than men have been. I guess families made loveless political or financial alliance marriages, but that concerns both parties, not just women. Property is slavery, people you can mistreat to an extent (often up to including killing them with impunity), because they belong to you. Not people the law forced you to provide for under threat of imprisonment.

I... wouldn't count it as radical feminism, to be honest.

Well, I heard it first hand from 2nd wave radfems.

It's not the whole picture, but it is part of the package. I know of trans men who've been accused of merely wanting a higher paycheck, or of being feminists (strange as it may seem).

Yeah I think there's a clause where having a M on your birth certificate forces employers to pay you 30% more.

They also tend to pass under the radar when it comes to being taken seriously by medical staff (male behaviour and clothing being a lot more acceptable for biological females than female behaviour and clothing is for biological males).

I don't know what you mean with the medical staff.

Which is also pretty much why people are arguing for unisex outfits, even the more feminine-looking ones. And yes, we are approaching gender equality. "Letting" women wear men's clothes (e.g. pants) is one part of it. Letting men wear women's clothes (without being beaten and/or mocked) is one step we haven't gotten to.

And I hope we get to it during my lifetime. What's funny is dress-like garments were a unisex norm before pants were even something people wore except for horseback riding (and well, also before that). For some reason we're able to differentiate between judge robes and dresses, as something *totally different*. In French robe and dress share the same word (robe).

Personally, being on the male side of the fence, I see it as fairly obvious that one of the larger underlying reasons to the reluctance to such behaviour (men in skirts) is the unwillingness to appear weak, feminine traits being seen as weakness in a man.

Except that feminity is not weak, it's just usually impractical (you can minimize the impractical if you're like me). For some reason, over time since the last 200 years, masculinity and masculine wear came to be associated with the practical and the working class. All frilly stuff went out. While feminine wear came to be associated with the impractical/aesthetic and the aristocratic class (ie princess, duchess), especially as clothing budgets went higher for the lower classes.

In the past aristocrats were having an arms-race on how impractical they could be. Having extremely long nails was just one way you could show people "see, I don't tend to the fields, I pay people for that, I'm obviously unable to do it with those hands, I can afford to do that because I'm that rich". So impractical stuff is not a nefarious ploy by men to enslave women, it's historically a manner to show off for those who don't get dirty.

Sure, people can rationalize that the men's style are just practical and nothing manly about them, but that's them being stripped to the bare mininum palette compared to what it used to be. Like someone said on the other page, heels were a rich man thing, before being unisex and then becoming a common woman thing. Tights also started off as a rich man thing, to show off calves, back when people thought men could also have sex appeal without being in the supermodel range.

Men don't dress feminine because other men don't dress feminine (ie it's not popular) and because it lowers their chance of attracting a woman (women on aggregate nowadays apparently don't like when men are aesthetic-driven, maybe fear of being out-competed). If long hair and frilly shirts were something enough women liked (not a small fringe of a fringe), you can be sure a sizeable portion of men would wear them the very next day.

Now it seems long hair is counterculture enough for men. Apparently even in Star Trek: women wear robe-like garments and have long hair, men wear pants-like garments and have short hair. Even on worlds 500 light years away humans have never been to before, 400 years in the future.

Being "like a woman" is seen as a bad thing for a man, but being "like a man" is also seen as a bad thing for a woman, but solely out of being gender-nonconforming. Hence the negative reputation of sporty girls and artsy boys.

Feminity is not seen as bad as long as it doesn't prevent stuff being done. And masculinity is not seen as this super good thing unless it gets thing done that otherwise wouldn't. Both tend to be viewed as a neutral thing, until they cause issues or get things moving from being stalled.

It's slowly getting better, of course, but when I grew up boys were still being taught not to cry, not to show emotions, because only girls or babies do that. Boys liking pink immediately being mocked for it by other children, because it's a girl colour. (The italicized words often said in a mocking tone.)

It's not at all about protecting their boy child from bullies, knowing that bullies prey on the crybaby and that school staff condone/ignore male-male bullying - or maybe that people in general have much less sympathy for victimized boys, crying or not? As for the color thing, well there is no boy color, so the reverse can't happen much. Maybe girls who got into violent videogames (any game with combat, you don't need a FPS for that) being mocked for not being into The Sims/dolls/insert-social-game instead.

I'm not talking about swearing and spitting, though. I'm talking about "masculine" qualities such as strength, leadership, self-confidence, courage. And no, I don't think those should be considered male traits at all, but a lot of people do.

But that's not masculine. I might as well say feminine only means the positive qualities we attribute to it, removing all the "but I'm above manual labor and getting dirty, that's guy's work" feminine attitude from the list and only having something like gracefulness.