I feel like blunt damage would have made more sense for MCH.

[RiceisNice]

[URL]...

Grenado launches shrapnel when it explodes. It definitely sounds like it's piercing more than blunt force when it hits something. Gauss Round, Blank and Supressive Fire are also all piercing despite their bullet effects showing otherwise.

It also doesn't quite help when machinist weapons itself can be a a double-barreled shotgun, a carbine, a revolver, a musketoon or a goddamn handcannon

[Myon88]

Grenado Shot and Blank are one of the most obvious cases of blunt effects we have.

A blank is literally a cartridge of gunpower without a bullet, so what you get is an expanding cloud of gas out of the barrel (which is why it pushes your target back). This is also why blanks are dangerous in real life at close ranges.

A grenade likewise, while you can rationalize it as piercing due to shrapnel, not all grenades are designed this way - what they all do have in common though is they also injure by means of the pressure wave they produce.

[BubblyBoar]

What's all this talk of bullets and balls? I thought MCHs shot aether shards?

[Ryaz]

Piercing vs blunt is all about surface area. Any weapon, given enough force, can pierce. The problem is, the more surface area, the more force that's needed. When talking about a wound type, it comes down to penetration. Even a sword is a blunt weapon if the blade isn't sharp enough to penetrate the skin. A bullet, whether it's pointed or round, is piercing. It hits a small surface area at high velocities, penetrating the target it hits. Even modern day weapons, like shotguns, use ball bearings (shot) and they'd be considered piercing weapons and not blunt.

A grenades type would depend on the type. If it's a straight explosions (like C4), it's blunt damage. It's all shockwave force. Also doesn't have a large radius of damage due to that. A frag grenade's explosion probably isn't enough to really kill someone, but the metal fragments it shoots out are deadly and I'd consider them piercing/cutting depending on the size of the shrapnel.

In the end, it isn't about the weapon. It's about the size of the wound in the body.

[Judge_Xero]

Piercing vs blunt is all about surface area. Any weapon, given enough force, can pierce. The problem is, the more surface area, the more force that's needed. When talking about a wound type, it comes down to penetration. Even a sword is a blunt weapon if the blade isn't sharp enough to penetrate the skin. A bullet, whether it's pointed or round, is piercing. It hits a small surface area at high velocities, penetrating the target it hits. Even modern day weapons, like shotguns, use ball bearings (shot) and they'd be considered piercing weapons and not blunt.

A grenades type would depend on the type. If it's a straight explosions (like C4), it's blunt damage. It's all shockwave force. Also doesn't have a large radius of damage due to that. A frag grenade's explosion probably isn't enough to really kill someone, but the metal fragments it shoots out are deadly and I'd consider them piercing/cutting depending on the size of the shrapnel.

In the end, it isn't about the weapon. It's about the size of the wound in the body.

True to some point. It's not about the weapon, it's about the type of wound on the body. Here is the definition of a piercing type injury I posted on the previous page

Three specific subtypes of sharp force injuries exist, as follows: stab wounds, incised wounds, and chop wounds.

--------------------------

All injuries related to guns/explosives seem to fall under Blunt Force Injuries (outside of special cases like an exploding bag of knives or arrows)

Blunt Force Injuries

● Injury causes by a blunt object striking the body or the body impacting a blunt surface

Abrasion: injury to superficial skin epithelium due to sliding force, compression or pressure; i.e. scrape
● Patterned abrasion: injury in which a pattern is transferred from the impacting object or intermediary material (i.e. clothing); can be used to identify weapon
● Road rash is an abrasion caused by the road surface; commonly seen in pedestrian-motor vehicle accidents (MVA) or bicycle accidents
● Antemortem abrasions are usually red-brown; postmortem abrasions are yellow or transparent (due to absence of blood flow)

Contusion: bleeding into skin or soft tissue due to ruptured blood vessels; i.e. bruise
● Can occur on skin, subcutaneous tissue or internal organs
● As with abrasions, can be patterned
● May not correspond to sight of impact; i.e., contrecoup contusions in the brain occur opposite to site of impact
● Senile ecchymoses in elderly should not be mistaken for significant blunt force injury; these occur with relatively minor trauma
● Color change over time: not necessarily reliable to indicate age of injury, but generally red/purple initially, then green/yellow over time

Laceration: tear in tissue due to blunt force injury
● Commonly occurs over boney prominences; can occur in internal organs
● Differentiated from sharp force injury (i.e. incision) by the presence of tissue bridging across the depths of the wound

Sharp Force Injuries

● Injury caused by sharp or pointed weapons
● Differentiated from lacerations by the absence of tissue bridging within the wound

Stab wound: injury from sharp weapon that is deeper than it is wide
● Common weapons include knife, ice pick, scissors, fork
● Stab wound on the skin should be examined to determine if it has sharp or blunt margins; this can be used to determine if the weapon had a single edged or double-edged blade
● Weapons such as a screwdriver, fork or serrated knife can leave distinctive skin patterns that can be matched to the weapon
● Depth of penetration of the wound does not directly correlate with the length of the weapon, as it can be longer, shorter, or equal to the weapon length depending upon the amount of force applied and the location on the body
● Likewise, the length of the wound on the skin may be longer, shorter or equal to the weapon's for the same reasons
● The guard of the knife may produce a patterned abrasion if it is stabbed with significant force into the skin; this can aid in identifying the weapon
● If the weapon comes into contact with bone, the tip may break off and remain in the body; this can be used to identify the weapon
● Suicidal stab wounds may show hesitation marks; i.e. multiple superficial stab wounds surrounding the final, fatal wound
● Defense stab wounds can be found on the hands and extensor surfaces of the arms in homicidal stabbings

Incised wound: sharp force injury that is longer (as measured on the skin) than it is deep
● Usually not fatal, except when they occur over major arteries (i.e. on the neck/arms)
● As with stab wounds, suicidal incised wounds may be associated with hesitation marks; these marks do not rule out homicide
● Defensive incised wounds occur on the hands and extensor surfaces of the arms in homicides
Chop wound: due to a heavy weapon that has a sharp edge, i.e. machete, axe, boat propeller
● Commonly produces an incised wound associated with a cut into the underlying bone
● Dull chop weapons, such as a shovel, produces more crush injury than sharp force injury

I imagine the aetheric rounds we are firing would be more rounded as opposed to shooting knives out of the Musket, so it should follow the same principle as normal rounds as far as injuries go.

[Cynric]

That's the thing though. You can shoot a dozen things out of a shotgun and they'll still pierce the target if the proper range is met regardless of what those things are(toys, spoons, small objects that in no way shape a bullet)

Plus as it's been said, You're shooting condensed aether, as for if they're more rounded.. You don't have to imagine, just look at your skill portraits.

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...fire_icon1.png
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...shot_icon1.png

then you have a couple of skills that require an exact piercing and could not be performed with something that causes blunt force trauma
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...raze_icon1.png
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...raze_icon1.png
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...reak_icon1.png
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...raze_icon1.png

the type of ammo seems to be clearly laid out in the skills to me, For Blank you fire a blank, that's probably the closest to blunt you could get. For Gauss round you use a special round. For everything else you use aether that looks like it's shaped like a normal round to me.

[TheMax1087]

then you have a couple of skills that require an exact piercing and could not be performed with something that causes blunt force trauma
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...raze_icon1.png
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...raze_icon1.png
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...reak_icon1.png
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...raze_icon1.png

You do realize that 3 of those 4 absolutely can not be piercing by their name alone, right?

[Waliel]

All four of them can be piercing because of their name alone.

[devil's]Grazing something to get the intented effect of those skills doesn't require the shot object to be sharp.[/advocate]

[Cynric]

All four of them can be piercing because of their name alone.

[devil's]Grazing something to get the intented effect of those skills doesn't require the shot object to be sharp.[/advocate]

Both of these are true ! xD But I was more so going by just the icons. I don't know what the japanese skill names are and I wouldn't go by english ones since well, the localization team are free to take liberties with those.

It could be called Leg graze here and the correct translation could be leg shot for all I know. The icons are something we all share but only the japanese name would be 100% correct information to go with. I was more so referring to the types of wounds /size of the wounds and size of the rounds being uniform throughout all of the icons where a wound or ammunition is shown. So it's not like we have to guess whether the ammunition is a musket ball or how it's shaped, the skill icons tell that story already.

[Felis]

During 1.0 the lance was the only weapon that did piercing damage. Arrows did projectile damage.



The devs should just bring back this damage type for Machinists and Bards, because I think we can agree that bullets do projectile damage regardless of their shape.