AST, MCH, DRK and their failure as new jobs at HW launch

[FoxyAreku]

They fixed all three of them fairly quickly, though astro took longer than I would have liked.

It was their first time adding a batch of new jobs so it's expected that they wouldn't be perfect. I know they released Ninja first but that was just a melee dps that didn't need to have much synergy with anything.

[UltimateAoe2]

The reason why most MCHs have low dps:


It requires a higher skill-level to maximize their potential.

cmon, don't even get me started on MCH. They're not weak, it's just the player not playing correctly. :v.

[Torunya]

I can't play Machinist! The job is a failure!

/totallynotsarcasm

[CrimsonThunder]

With all due to respect to WAR and PLD's, DRK's main issue is that it feels like the class has to work harder than the other two just to compete on the same level and we're also lacking synergy with a few skills.

I mean our AOE threat is fantastic and debatably the best but it still relies on Blood Price and being hit to keep it up. While this isn't usually a problem there are situation when things aren't poking you as often as you need them too just to keep the MP flow up. Dark Arts seriously needs to be examined again imho because the boosts from it don't feel as useful as it's high MP cost.

Don't even get me started on Blood Weapon.

[RiceisNice]

The reason why most MCHs have low dps:


It requires a higher skill-level to maximize their potential.

cmon, don't even get me started on MCH. They're not weak, it's just the player not playing correctly. :v.

They were objectively weaker than other DPS classes, as well as bard. Not to the point of being useless, but it was still pretty terrible since they were essentially doing 2.0 dps in a 3.0 environment.

[Voltyblast]

I partially agree with the OP, but I'm also not fully able to judge them because for the except of the DRK, the other two are still low for me.

But for what I could tell, I don't like these 3 new class-I mean jobs either because, as i said, I do partially agree with the OP.

AST, as much as it was weaker, and now being stronger, I think it's one of the "better thought" jobs: the buffs they give are quite nice and I like that they can switch their healing effects, although copying a tad too much the WHM and the SCH. I give it a mediocre pass though.

MCH feels like a bard for me but I don't know yet, but for what I could tell they use turrets instead of music for mp and tp regen...and also get their version of WM at 52, so say goodbye to your moving dps! But overall, they seem okay-ish but not original: they just use guns instead of bows in my eyes.

Now, as for DRK, I have my two cents about it, because I main a warrior and so far DRK doesn't do as much damage as one: they have no burst damage whatsoever and no major skill can deal as much damage as Fel Cleave.
So there's paladin left and...that's where I can compare because DRK is thought to be a MT: the parry trigger thing and overall damage reduction skills feels more like a paladin, which isn't a bad thing per se but it HEAVILY copied Paladin on that regard (Rampart is Dark Skin, Sentinel is Shadow wall, Bulwark is Dark Dance). On top of that DRK also have the constant mana issue that DOES NOT translate into complexity: an annoying gimmick is still annoying, and mana drain is annoying and sadly it's required for some skills to be performed. Did they think that mana draining would make DRK unique or something? Because I don't think so!

So as much as I can't speak for the other 2 jobs, I really wished DRK relied less on his mana and didn't brutally copy many of the paladin's skill set and also warrior's (They have a second combo chain like warriors', but only Delirium is really of any use). As of now DRK (and I suppose MCH and also partially AST) feel like copies or reskins and that is kind of weird considering that the ninja, which came during 2.X, really felt different than MNK and DRG with their mudras.

[CrimsonThunder]

snip

This^. I really despise Delirium, it feels like a lazy throw in (even the animation sucks ) and it makes me miss my Storm's Eye.

[Indiction]

Would anyone else like it if MCH became full on physical, ranged DPS and lost its support capabilities? And BRD used to be actual support before didn't it (before it was changed)? While I do kinda wish BRD was a focus on songs and buffs and all, I really don't see SE changing it :C I would def play MCH if it wasn't just a rehash of BRD...I think a lot of people agree on BRD/MCH being wayyyyy too similar.

[FoxyAreku]

Would anyone else like it if MCH became full on physical, ranged DPS and lost its support capabilities? And BRD used to be actual support before didn't it (before it was changed)? While I do kinda wish BRD was a focus on songs and buffs and all, I really don't see SE changing it :C I would def play MCH if it wasn't just a rehash of BRD...I think a lot of people agree on BRD/MCH being wayyyyy too similar.

No because then we would go back to having bards be mandatory in progression statics and that was awful. At least now we have an option to bring a machinist instead, which actually does offer different benefits to a party.

[RiceisNice]

Would anyone else like it if MCH became full on physical, ranged DPS and lost its support capabilities? And BRD used to be actual support before didn't it (before it was changed)? While I do kinda wish BRD was a focus on songs and buffs and all, I really don't see SE changing it :C I would def play MCH if it wasn't just a rehash of BRD...I think a lot of people agree on BRD/MCH being wayyyyy too similar.

This does not work in current party compositions. The way it is right now, Bards and MCH compete against each other for a spot (when before it was unanimously bard). What they need to do is divestize the two a little bit. The fact they both have GB and WM which are functionally the same skills do not help in this regard.

On a side note, melee dps also needs to take a look. The way it currently stands, a DRG is practically garunteed a spot if you're looking for optimal set ups. Battle litany is too good to pass, arguably the strongest single target dps and boosts BRD/MCH DPS (the two also being a mandatory slot for cutting edge progression)What they need to do is divestize the two a little bit. The fact they both have GB and WM which are functionally the same skills do not help in this regard. looking for optimal set ups. Battle litany is too good to pass, arguably the strongest single target dps and boosts BRD/MCH DPS (the two also being a mandatory slot for cutting edge progression)