What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

My math comes out to be at max 7 - 10% better in that department, seriously is that worth it over bringing the huge advantages an AST? I really don't think it is unless content is doing such extreme AoE damage overtime that its the only way to survive.

Statics should always have an AST in the group now probably with a SCH, WHM is more the emergency backup.

Do define "huge". And also include the math of it :P

[SenzorialBoundries]

Do define "huge". And also include the math of it :P

We can start by saying that AST has a better version of supervirus regardless of stance(you can correct me here if i am wrong but i think 10% reduced potency is a bit better than 15% stat reduction) ,while whm has a normal virus which is not very usefull on most tank busters, or how AST got acess to 10% dmg reduction in both stances while WHM does not have any sort of mitigation (as it should be), just a couple of spontaneous things. A huge design flaw imo.

[Kosmos992k]

The precise change:
ARR protect (including crossclass version) only boosted PDEF. Traited protect boosted PDEF and MDEF.
Heavensward: There is only 1 version of protect and it boosts PDEF and MDEF.

Thank you. I appreciate the clarity. I don't play my WHM half as much as PLD, and hadn't really been able to get to grips with the detail of the changes, I guess I should read patch notes more carefully.

I know that they did this to make sure that WHM was not mandatory for magic damage heavy raid content - or so I have read. Really though, it removes a distinction that WHM/CNJ had before, as does the removal of Granite Skin. All the responses I read in these topis generally focus on pointing out that the WHM is still king or queen of power healing. But I think that the loss of identity through changes like this is not offset by potentially more powerful heals at end-game. End-game utility is about the math and optimizing gear and rotations. But if you're not involved in that, there is no offset to the loss of identity.

[Risvertasashi]

We can start by saying that AST has a better version of supervirus regardless of stance(you can correct me here if i am wrong but i think 10% reduced potency is a bit better than 15% stat reduction) ,while whm has a normal virus which is not very usefull on most tank busters, or how AST got acess to 10% dmg reduction in both stances while WHM does not have any sort of mitigation (as it should be), just a couple of spontaneous things. A huge design flaw imo.

...Funnily enough, though, on the rare occasions where it is useful, WHM virus is every bit as good and powerful as SCH virus. Just it's not useful very often because raidbusters are virtually always magic, and a lot of tankbusters are too.

Also, WHM E4E is just as good as the traited version, it just has a huge cooldown. But I have to disagree with the bolded. Saying WHM should have no mitigation is like saying SCH should have no heals because it has shields and mitigation.

[SenzorialBoundries]

sniü

They had mitigation in form of the traited stone skin , i remember on t13 an adlo and a whm ss was enough to mitigate most of the flatten dmg now its more advantageous to just pre cast a cure1/2 instead of wasting mp on stone skin sadly they took it away from them, my point with the mitigation is that they shouldnt have any huge mitigation like sch succor /sacred soil or fey covenant, and scholars shouldnt have that much aoe burst healing like they recieved now in heavnsward but that is just my opinion.

[Risvertasashi]

They had mitigation in form of the traited stone skin , i remember on t13 an adlo and a whm ss was enough to mitigate most of the flatten dmg now its more advantageous to just pre cast a cure1/2 instead of wasting mp on stone skin sadly they took it away from them, my point with the mitigation is that they shouldnt have any huge mitigation like sch succor /sacred soil or fey covenant, and scholars shouldnt have that much aoe burst healing like they recieved now in heavnsward but that is just my opinion.

I don't particularly disagree with most of what you said, but minor nitpick: Stoneskin, even at 18%, was less efficient than our worst efficiency heals. It was always more efficient to precast a heal, but you stoneskin'd Flatten because that thing really frackin' hurt and could oneshot a tank, nevermind the Flare Breaths that came right after it. xD

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

We can start by saying that AST has a better version of supervirus regardless of stance(you can correct me here if i am wrong but i think 10% reduced potency is a bit better than 15% stat reduction) ,while whm has a normal virus which is not very usefull on most tank busters, or how AST got acess to 10% dmg reduction in both stances while WHM does not have any sort of mitigation (as it should be), just a couple of spontaneous things. A huge design flaw imo.

Well, I tried it on my monk:
914 str, 492 det - Auto attacks hits on average: 359.78 (based on 50 auto attacks without critical damage)
776 str, 417 det - Auto attack hits on average: 304.70 (based on 50 auto attacks without critical damage)
Difference: 15.31%

Regardless of the fact how small the sample size is, -15% strength does translate into roughly -15% damage. Even if we were to consider a relatively large error margin, give or take 5% off the results, it's still ranging between 14.54% and 16.08% difference. So yes, a normal virus on physical attacks is more potent than 10% reduced action damage. Also lasts longer and add in the eye for an eye comment Risvertasashi made, White Mages do have a respectable amount of mitigation.

People are looking at just tankbusters to mitigate. Yes, this is the primary source for wipes. But there are other mechanics:
A1 prey/missile mechanic is, surprisingly, physical. Although you can't guess which prey belongs to which boss, you can make it easier for yourself or the other healer.
A2 dolls and widows are primarily physical
A3 hands split up, there's no reason not to virus the extra hand that appears when needed.


Also, if I may:

I don't particularly disagree with most of what you said, but minor nitpick: Stoneskin, even at 18%, was less efficient than our worst efficiency heals. It was always more efficient to precast a heal, but you stoneskin'd Flatten because that thing really frackin' hurt and could oneshot a tank, nevermind the Flare Breaths that came right after it. xD

There's no price tag on preventing a potential death.

edit:
Older content physical tank busters and "tank busters":
T1 snake cleave (it's technically the "tank buster" of this encounter)
T4 What isn't physical in here? <_>
T5 Everything that can hit you and can be survived is physical here, even the fireballs
T6 Bloody caress (cleave attack)
T7 snake lady cleave
T9 Raven's Beak, Bahamut's Claw, mr. Golem's headbutt
T10 Critical Rip
T11 Resonance (and secondary head, I believe?)
T12 Revelation - YES, that giant ball of fire is physical
T13 Flatten, deadly drive (phase 2 adds), death sentence (phase 3 add)

[Raso]

snip

Stoneskin just is not worth it in combat at all period.

But every class should be able to fulfill the roles expected but excel in specific areas, the problem is.
1) each class should do it differently. SCH's Aetherflow makes it extremely unique, WHM and AST now have the exact same basic toolkit.
2) No one can match the cards they are too strong now give up nothing for them, all cards but the spear are really quite useful. An SCH is the only one that comes close, a WHM cant touch them at all without stopping healing. The only area that a WHM excels is AoE healing but that isnt by much at all, it cant be due to its required for healing. WHM is just lacking that one advantage to be unique really.

Also I have been asked 3 times dungeons "when am I switching to AST? This would be faster now if you were one and I could do more deeps. Your like in the second rate healer class" even though we cleared it in good time and no one even got low. yeah...

[Niroken]

White Mage is the liquid paper of healers, our excessive healing covers up party member mistakes. Very good in learning content and when the other healer wants to be lazy or wants to DPS but not really optimal when farming content.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

2) No one can match the cards they are too strong now give up nothing for them, all cards but the spear are really quite useful.

Right, I've refrained from commenting on this particular kind of notion that's been beaten like a dead horse, resurrected and beaten to death again. But here I go:

Assume a 10 minute encounter, that's 20 draws. 16.7% chance to draw a balance, 33.3% chance to draw something to extend it, 33.3% chance to expand it, 16.7% chance to enhance it. So let's assume we ONLY use Balance here, as that is the more direct damage output increase card and seemingly your argument that Astrologian has an edge against white mage in the DPS department. (last one doesn't count, but let's forget about that for now as 20 is an easier number to calculate with :P)

So out of 20 cards drawn 3 to 4 of them will be balance. Let's just assume it's 4 in your argument's advantage and each time it's expanded too, so 400% effect (NOT entirely true, but in your argument's advantage again).
so 4 cards lasting 30 seconds for +5% damage on 8 players total leads to:
120 seconds +5% damage in an encounter that lasts 10 minutes. This averages down to an increase of 1% combined raid DPS when everything is perfectly drawn

I suppose you define 1% as "huge"?

Oh yeah, it's a "perfect world", so let's start the encounter with an expanded balance, expanded royal road after using it and draw another balance straight away: 5 expanded balances in 10 minutes! The dps increase suddenly went up to +1,25%!

But Balance doesn't define astrologian. Other cards have uses in the right hand and in the right encounter. Spear's useless? Here's an example for it's use: With how MP pressing A2S can be, giving your Scholar a well-timed spear can help them in the MP department. If not on your scholar, your summoner. If neither, yourself if you have GCDs coming back soon. Still no good choice? Royal road it.

Edit:
I just realised, but I asked you to define what the "huge" increase was. But I just did it for you. So you're welcome.