Zone Aesthetics

[Rydin]

Purely a discussion for gamers...

We talk a lot about zones that are bland and repetitive.
So not talking about polygons or graphics engines....
Its not even a matter of right and wrong... just your personal choice?

Should every region be splendid and gorgeous and expansive and beautiful?

or

Having boring regions feels more natural... AS LONG AS beautiful regions exist also?


For example:
Instead of a zone redesign... what if SE had said,
"The current zones will stay the way they are (in regards to visuals, not MOB placement) and instead, we will just release 5 new zones that look and feel incredible.. that are diverse, with new MOBs and varied terrain and landmarks"

In a way, having bland areas that lead into incredibly diverse areas could be cool...
Perhaps a desert is supposed to be monotonous?

Sometimes a dramatic contrast is used to make the incredible parts stand out.
A dead zone may be ugly but add to the overall dynamic feel of Eorzea...
I don't know... what do you guys think?

[Perrin_Aybarra]

I would rather a complete redesign.

The maps are way too big to just call them bland. I would not mind if let's say a sub-zone of the region is bland and monotonous if it serves the game. Like maybe the drybone area in Thanalan could be bland and monotonous, but then since the other sub-zones of Thanalan wouldn't be bland and monotonous, Drybone would feel unique as well in this regard so it would not feel bland after all.

The problem is you can walk 30min in the same zone and yet you feel like you are in the same place you started, this is even more noticable in the Black Shroud.

With the redesign, not everything has to be over the top unique and gorgeous, some zones or new zones could be more or less depending of the design, but have 2-3 different themes per regions like Yoshi-P confirmed will be more than welcomed.

[Rydin]

I would rather a complete redesign.

The maps are way too big to just call them bland. I would not mind if let's say a sub-zone of the region is bland and monotonous if it serves the game. Like maybe the drybone area in Thanalan could be bland and monotonous, but then since the other sub-zones of Thanalan wouldn't be bland and monotonous, Drybone would feel unique as well in this regard so it would not feel bland after all.

The problem is you can walk 30min in the same zone and yet you feel like you are in the same place you started, this is even more noticable in the Black Shroud.

With the redesign, not everything has to be over the top unique and gorgeous, some zones or new zones could be more or less depending of the design, but have 2-3 different themes per regions like Yoshi-P confirmed will be more than welcomed.

Thats a good point... a zone as big as Ul'dah being bland is a bit much
And yea, I saw the thing about 3 themes... I'm looking forward to it...
But you're saying you are ok with one of the 3 themes to match the current feel?
I think I'd like that

I don't think people are complaining about the feeling of the zones, but the similarity within each zone. They didn't build enough assets for the size of the zones, so it's just constant copy/paste.

Yea.. I can see that...
So you'd like the feel of each zone as long as they didn't have the exact same ridge repeated over and over?
I think I've seen a few people say they prefer the "over-the-top" fantasy aesthetic to the more subdued beauty of FFXIV....

This means all the new players would hate what they experience when they see it - because it's what we went through as well.

thats funny cause it's true

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Thats a good point... a zone as big as Ul'dah being bland is a bit much
And yea, I saw the thing about 3 themes... I'm looking forward to it...
But you're saying you are ok with one of the 3 themes to match the current feel?
I think I'd like that

For sure I'd be ok with that, the zones aren't ugly by far, they are just too repetitive for too long. Yes there are some variations but they are too rare and not enough noticable to be called variations, plus the abusive use of copy/pasted huge blocks.

Black Shroud for exemple, sure they can keep an area with the overpasses and all, but them maybe the central shroud it could be more of an open forest, the east shroud more like a clearing. The western part could be those overpasses/mazes thing. Just so we don't feel like we are always in the same place regardless what level you are.

[Platinumstorm]

So you'd like the feel of each zone as long as they didn't have the exact same ridge repeated over and over?

I have problems with the length of time it takes to get from place to place, and then once you get to that area you spend a little bit of time there; you're done, and then you have to make the long journey elsewhere - so that's a pain. There's nothing exciting that happens between the points, there aren't even things like vendors where you can unload goods, or even people to talk to. I do think a few points major standout points of interest that actually mean something and do something are really important, but the zones don't really have them. At the very least, large points of interest serve as a navigation ground. You can also have smaller points of interests. For example, you could have Fungar creatures populating an area where there are some giant mushrooms. That makes sense because it's like their camouflage. It's not something that's going to overwhelm a players' sense, isn't grandiose, and doesn't take away from subtle zone aesthetics, but it makes sense and adds some character.

I do think Black Shroud is a zone that needs more than just repeating the same ridge - this is because of the HUGE gaps caused by the corridor. Black Shroud needs a MAJOR overhaul. It's annoying that the Black Shroud's major features are lakes that look identical to each other. The lakes should have character to them; it doesn't mean they need a tower of Babel shooting laser beams from it, but it needs to have its own flavor and purpose.

La Noscea really needs performance optimizations, so that would be the change I would suggest for it.

Thanalan has the best zone design. You have easy access to several different tilesets within the theme, and even though there are many repeated assets it's easier to digest in this zone because of its open space and larger items.

Mor Dhana is a mess and I would just overhaul it completely. No one wants to go to Mor Dhana and fight pigs and toads. It's basically saying here's a giant dragon - but what you're going to fight are lizards, pigs, and toads.

Coerthas is somewhere in the middle. It needs some performance optimizations; but like Mor Dhana and the other zones- nothing there matters.

A part of the zone redesigns should also focus on music, they need to add lots and lots of music. People talk about how FFXIV's music is so great, and there are some really nice pieces, but there is so little of it and it ends up ruining the ambient experience.

Right now between the three main zones there is about 6-9 minutes of non-combat music per zone. [which is what you're doing the majority of the time]

I researched this a few months ago, but one of my favorite zones in World of Warcraft has about 25 minutes of music for the daytime cycle.

This music is trimmed apart into smaller bits that make it feel relevant to areas within the zone, and it's a great feeling and adds so much to the zone design.

Daytime cycle music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpyInx0ldfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nGXJ...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFaVY...eature=related

The Night cycle has 20 minutes music, but it's modified to fight the night time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLJSIsg3lh8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5s-8...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFaVY...eature=related

So for this zone, there is nearly 1 hour of music.

Take some time to read the comments there, because the theme of the zone combined with the absolutely superb music really evoked emotional responses from people. I've heard these tracks so many times and they give me chills.

FFXIV has Nobeo Uematsu - his contributions to making the FF franchise successful are immensely high; so let him use his works to make the game more immersive.

[Rydin]

I have problems with the length of time it takes to get from place to place, and then once you get to that area you spend a little bit of time there; you're done, and then you have to make the long journey elsewhere - so that's a pain. There's nothing exciting that happens between the points, there aren't even things like vendors where you can unload goods, or even people to talk to. I do think a few points major standout points of interest that actually mean something and do something are really important, but the zones don't really have them. At the very least, large points of interest serve as a navigation ground. You can also have smaller points of interests. For example, you could have Fungar creatures populating an area where there are some giant mushrooms. That makes sense because it's like their camouflage. It's not something that's going to overwhelm a players' sense, isn't grandiose, and doesn't take away from subtle zone aesthetics, but it makes sense and adds some character.

That was a long post... but I honestly enjoyed it... you were honest about what you disliked... but I felt like it came from a serious desire for this game to be better.. and not just blind hate....
You know, I was gathering the other day and saw Funguar... and I was like "It would be cool if there were mushrooms that looked like the funguars when they are rooted to the ground..." that would really make it interesting.... maybe even harvestable mushrooms... so sometimes the botanists accidentally aggroed a funguar by mistake

[Seif]

I would rather a complete redesign.

The maps are way too big to just call them bland. I would not mind if let's say a sub-zone of the region is bland and monotonous if it serves the game. Like maybe the drybone area in Thanalan could be bland and monotonous, but then since the other sub-zones of Thanalan wouldn't be bland and monotonous, Drybone would feel unique as well in this regard so it would not feel bland after all.

The problem is you can walk 30min in the same zone and yet you feel like you are in the same place you started, this is even more noticable in the Black Shroud.

With the redesign, not everything has to be over the top unique and gorgeous, some zones or new zones could be more or less depending of the design, but have 2-3 different themes per regions like Yoshi-P confirmed will be more than welcomed.

What he said I think most of the landscapes aren't worth saving in the game and they should just do a complete overhaul. few statues here and there won't do it. It'll be interesting to see what SE comes up with since so far they tend to go for the easiest solutions that require the absolute least amount of work but good environment design has no workarounds.

[Platinumstorm]

I don't think people are complaining about the feeling of the zones, but the similarity within each zone. They didn't build enough assets for the size of the zones, so it's just constant copy/paste.

For example:
Instead of a zone redesign... what if SE had said,
"The current zones will stay the way they are (in regards to visuals, not MOB placement) and instead, we will just release 5 new zones that look and feel incredible.. that are diverse, with new MOBs and varied terrain and landmarks"

This means all the new players would hate what they experience when they see it - because it's what we went through as well.

Perhaps a desert is supposed to be monotonous?

I wouldn't really call Thanalan a desert, but yeah a desert is supposed to be monotonous; but that doesn't mean everything looks the same. Everything in the FFXIV zones do look the same, because they are the same. The placement of the environment in the Black Forest, for example goes XLOXLOXLOXLOXLOXLO over and over, and that's what pisses people off; not the sort of subdued aspects of it. When you also consider that there aren't any destinations to go to within the zones, and that there aren't visual sites worth considering within the zones - and that nothing within the zones has meaning - that's where they real problem lies.

The zone redesigns will be a beneficial thing for us, and the base zones do need to be redesigned; particularily Shroud and La Noscea.

[Rydin]

Also, this is as good a place as any to say I LOVE the MOB detail in this game.
Yea, a lot of them are cute and far from menacing... but that fits in well with the theme of this thread
the fact that we only fight baby dragons means when we see an actual dragon... we could possibly be blown away, maybe???

It's another contrast... Whats your opinion? would you rather all the MOBs look more ferocious and tough?
I mean.. many do.. Mongrels look mean... Ogre's are very unfriendly...
But there is a lot of cuteness to Eorzea.... Would that be ok if you knew for sure that the big bad mean ones were coming later in new zones?

[Perrin_Aybarra]

to answer the mob thing, I think they are fine for now and fits the world we are in. There are meaner looking monsters when you go further and I am positive there will be other models and unique looking monsters in the future.

Close to cities and established encampment, I find it normal that there is not many ferocious/menacing monsters.