Hints at Blue Mage in the level 60 ALC quest?

[Eecka]

When the question was brought up in a previous live letter, Yoshi-P explained why: it\\'s because some players might be excluded if they didn\\'t have a certain spell learned yet.

And, while Blue Mage was depicted as versatile in V and XI, they could easily go the Strago route for XIV and make BLU a Caster job like BLM and SMN.

That answer is a bit of a cop-out though, because players might be excluded for not bringing certain must-have cross class skills just the same. Or for not completing their class/job quests, which BLU\\'s spell collecting essentially is.

I dont think they can or should make BLU as a hybrid, as hybrids are hugely problematic to balance, not to mention the huge crys about BRD/MCH damage/utility tradeoff.

[Eecka]

Giving versatility an exact value in balance discussion is problematic:

Class A = pure
Class B = hybrid

Situation 1: B can specialize into the role of A and perform equally

Problem: why have A at all? B is more versatile, and can adjust into any encounter with bringing the optimal set of skills for it.

Solution 2: B loses a bit of it\\\\\\'s specialized power, to pay for the extra versatility

Problem: B will always perform worse, because they\\'re a Jack of all trades. If B specced into DPS, their tank skills are completely useless, not bringing anything to their DPS.

WoW solved this by locking hybrids in their specialized role of choice. A druid can mdps, caster DPS, tank and heal. But you have to choose one, you can\\'t do it all at the same time. You\\'ll need a respec and a New set of gear to change the role. But then it makes no sense to even be a hybrid, the 4 different specs might as well be 4 different classes with a couple shared skills.

[Cilia]

As I pointed out though, "versatility" hasn't always been a flavor of blue mages. Strago, for example, was very much a caster type, and could be used as a basis for BLU in XIV.

That's one game, though. Even if not explicitly named as such, BLU has been in a lot more than V, VI, and XI; VII's E. Skill materia works exactly like Blue Magic, Quistis' Desperation Moves in VIII are essentially Blue Magic, Quina in IX is a Blue Mage, and Kimahri's Overdrives in X are Blue Magic in all but name. And those are just the ones I know of. In all of those cases, Blue Magic is incredibly diverse, from powerful healing spells like White Wind to the famous Big Guard to the nuking Shockwave Pulsar. (And even Strago learns White Wind, Big Guard, and other healing / support spells, so he's not just a nuke caster DPS. Additionally, most BLU do learn more offensive magic, but that's just because it's easier to make diverse offensive options than diverse healing or support options.)

Could they add BLU? Sure they could. But could they compromise its traditional versatility with the strict combat roles in XIV and still keep its flavor intact while also making it a combat-viable class people will want to play?

... maybe. They did change DRK from "HP sacrificing melee DPS" to "MP sacrificing masochist tank," so it's not impossible but it (probably) wouldn't be the classical-style "learns versatile monster moves" BLU.

[Jonnycbad]

If they can give bards bows, there's no telling what BLU might get. Might be whips, maces, scythes, who knows. Falchions and scimitars are already gladiator weapons so that's out, and really, ffxi is the only ff game where blu specialized in swords. Ff5 they could use clubs swords daggers, ff6 it was staves, ff8 whips, ff9 forks, ff10 spears, ff10-2 magick pistols, etc.

[Zohar_Lahar]

I nominate nunchucks.

[Alberel]

Giving versatility an exact value in balance discussion is problematic:

Class A = pure
Class B = hybrid

Situation 1: B can specialize into the role of A and perform equally

Problem: why have A at all? B is more versatile, and can adjust into any encounter with bringing the optimal set of skills for it.

Solution 2: B loses a bit of it\\\\\\'s specialized power, to pay for the extra versatility

Problem: B will always perform worse, because they\\'re a Jack of all trades. If B specced into DPS, their tank skills are completely useless, not bringing anything to their DPS.

WoW solved this by locking hybrids in their specialized role of choice. A druid can mdps, caster DPS, tank and heal. But you have to choose one, you can\\'t do it all at the same time. You\\'ll need a respec and a New set of gear to change the role. But then it makes no sense to even be a hybrid, the 4 different specs might as well be 4 different classes with a couple shared skills.

There's the third option of combat locked stances much as AST has (and to some extent I believe AST's stances are a trial for hyrbid jobs). There's no balancing problem to solve if they have to pick one role prior to entering a duty and are locked to it for the duration of that duty.

[Iagainsti]

This isn't XI; please stop asking for every class from that game to be put in.

#nochill and #dumbaf all the classes in this game were in ffxi(some now have different names and applications, but they're rooted the same).

[Cilia]

There's the third option of combat locked stances much as AST has (and to some extent I believe AST's stances are a trial for hyrbid jobs). There's no balancing problem to solve if they have to pick one role prior to entering a duty and are locked to it for the duration of that duty.

You're not entirely wrong; however the problem with AST is that, while it is a competent healer, it's neither as good at direct heals as WHM nor as good at barrier heals as SCH. As such, outside of people trying it for fun I don't run into many. Additionally AST isn't really a hybrid class; it's a healing class through and through.

We do have a hybrid class, though - ACN and its specializations SMN and SCH. I played one back in 2.0, using SMN for when I was soloing in the open world and SCH for dungeons. They're both viable jobs (especially now that SMN has the Bahamut Laser), but it's tough to play them both on one character since one's INT heavy and another's MND heavy. It can be done, but it's not optimal (not that it matters, given I don't raid).

Could BLU work in a similar way? Hmm...

#nochill and #dumbaf all the classes in this game were in ffxi(some now have different names and applications, but they're rooted the same).

Most of the classes in XI come from earlier in Final Fantasy history. The point is this isn't XI, so wanting every class from that game to make its way here makes it look like you want this to be XI-2, which it isn't.

Also AST begs to differ.

[Alberel]

You're not entirely wrong; however the problem with AST is that, while it is a competent healer, it's neither as good at direct heals as WHM nor as good at barrier heals as SCH. As such, outside of people trying it for fun I don't run into many. Additionally AST isn't really a hybrid class; it's a healing class through and through.

We do have a hybrid class, though - ACN and its specializations SMN and SCH. I played one back in 2.0, using SMN for when I was soloing in the open world and SCH for dungeons. They're both viable jobs (especially now that SMN has the Bahamut Laser), but it's tough to play them both on one character since one's INT heavy and another's MND heavy. It can be done, but it's not optimal (not that it matters, given I don't raid).

Could BLU work in a similar way? Hmm...

Well that's another issue with AST that I really don't understand the reasoning behind. AST has weaker healing output as some form of compensation for their ability to fulfill both the WHM and SCH role... but they can only ever fill one at a time so there is no reason for them to be given weaker heals in the first place. When in the healing stance they should heal as well as a WHM, and as well as a SCH when in the shield stance. At present they're just a weak healer with some offensive party support. I don't think the devs really understand how the 'hybrid tax' works as there is only any need for it if a class can switch between roles on the fly, which AST cannot.

I know it's not a true hybrid in the traditional sense but it is a hybrid of two sub-roles in the healer archetype. The fact is most raid groups will always want a WHM and a SCH as they heal in very different ways, so those are essentially two separate roles in terms of party composition at this point, much like a BRD or MCH will be wanted by most groups, resulting in a de facto support role existing whether the devs admit it or not. If they wanted to experiment with the possibility of hybrid jobs in the future then starting small-scale with sub-roles like these would be the safest way to test the waters. As I said though they don't seem to understand how to balance hybrids like this...

I don't think the ACN => SMN/SCH thing will ever happen again though as it has caused a whole list of problems for the two jobs due to shared skills, traits and stats. If BLU is a hybrid then it will function more like AST I think, just with more dramatic differences between those stances and a strict mechanism to prevent switching in duties.

[WellFooled]

This isn't XI; please stop asking for every class from that game to be put in.

Yes, how dare he ask for a returning element from a game he loved, in a series famous for its returning elements! :P

Everyone has favorite jobs from past Final Fantasy games, its only natural to want them to return in the latest Final Fantasy. Plus, Puppetmasters are awesome :P