Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[StrejdaTom]

Yeah, why not just allow us to script the absolute best rotations and AoE dodging, so that the game can do it? Then every job would be doing the exact same things all the time and we wouldn't be hearing all this BS whining about bad DPS.
As extra punishment, our faces could be ripped off, our bodies snapped in half, and our souls thrown in the deepest pits of hell, never ever to see daylight again. So that we'd surely not ever come back to ruin your game for you.

OP made quite a valuable suggestion and you come with what? Throwing around scripts and body ripping..
There is absolutely no way to improve some players except taking them by hand and showing them what to do, asking developers to do that is somehow ok, especially when they introduce mild dps checks that some people cannot pass.

Of course, there are those of us that have certain ... problems, making optimal gameplay not something that can be commonly done. Whether it's due to hands not pressing the buttons your mind is telling it to, or a complete inability to focus on more than one or two things at a time. I, for instance, cannot keep track of cooldowns/buffs/DoTs/AoEs to move out of the way of, as well as doing perfect rotations without messing something up regardless of how much practice is put into it due to some limitations my brain can process at the same time. I've played Bard, and only Bard, since 2.1 and I'm only an average player that can play to the absolute best every once in a while.

But I know who I am, and I stay out of content that's too much for me. No EX Primals or Alexander for a while, until Echo comes into play.

Not sure what your UI looks like, but it helps to have certains skills on monitor twice. Once with bigger icons around the place you watch the most. That way you will never miss bloodletter, buff, barrage + empyreal etc., also you can use macro that hides the hotbar with mega huge icons every time you aren't doing some hard content so it doesn't ruin your game experience.

I might even show you my UI but it might scare you.

[BreathlessTao]

OP made quite a valuable suggestion and you come with what? Throwing around scripts and body ripping..
There is absolutely no way to improve some players except taking them by hand and showing them what to do, asking developers to do that is somehow ok, especially when they introduce mild dps checks that some people cannot pass.

Yes, I come with that, because I'm fed up with all these threads whining about bad DPS.

On one hand, there's more than enough teaching in the game - all people need to do is actually read and practice. Quest and item descriptions, conversations, tooltips: everything is there. Low level dungeons, and especially guildhests: everything is there. And yes, there is a lot to learn in guildhests, actually, with much less time to invest and much less risk than in dungeons - of course that would require not charging blindly and listening to what the NPC is saying...something 4 out of every 5 new people don't do, because oh well just charge in and beat things up. People choosing to overlook those as "trivial" or "unimportant" or "who cares" - that can't be helped. People not wanting to actually learn - that can't helped. People choosing to burn through FATEs to level up and not bother with anything else until they get to "endgame" - that can't be helped.

On the other hand, I've had just about enough of different DPS classes cursing each other out. Different DPS that might not even actually know/play another job, just simply dissing whoever's playing it for not doing enough damage. Like, go play that job if you know it so well, and do better damage if it hurts you so much. I've also had just about enough of tanks thinking they're DPS and failing not only even noticing changes (more enemies showing up, de/buffs applied, etc) but also to hold aggro to the point where enemies are ripped off them left, right, and center, without even making much of an effort - and then of course it's the DPS being blamed again for "not being able to dodge", even though that isn't even the problem. I've also had just about enough of healers DPSing more than they heal, so much so that health bars drop so fast you blink once and everyone's dead.

I'm fed up with all this crying for parsers, as if DPS is the key to everything - because everyone's too lazy to do mechanics, so it's easier to think that everything can just be burnt away without giving a damn about any of details. Newsflash: that's not the case. Because that guy that's not doing as much damage as you, or even as much as another DPS, might actually be doing mechanics and helping the party to avoid a wipe, y'know. (Typical example: off-tanks and melee DPS in A4 with tunnel vision, only focused on hitting the legs/boss, and not even noticing balls or dolls or lasers.) That guy that's not doing as much damage as you, or even as much as another DPS, might actually having issues with their connection, the jerkiness resulting in stop-motion, bad input lag, higher latency, what have you - it is all too common, sadly, and has especially been common since HW. That guy that's not doing as much damage as you, or even as much as another DPS, might actually be dodging more AoE, giving healers less of a headache about whom to heal, not to mention resurrect.

And yes, things like Bismarck Extreme with its arbitrary and apparently very high DPS check are bad. The fact that they can't even be attempted solo in the DF makes them even worse - especially considering the other fact that PFs are never about practice/learning, only about clear or farm. And even the clear parties turn out to be abysmal, of course, because everyone only expects a clear, not wipe after wipe, so about three tries, all of them vote abandon and then disband. And farm parties with the "no law bonus" condition I'm sure discourage even more people to even try. I've been in one PF party that actually was advertised as practice, and did practice too - we went on for about 50 minutes, never getting the clear, but doing a lot of practice and getting closer and closer. You can read all the guides and watch all the videos, but it's not the same as actually being in there and trying to do the thing - not to mention the fact that someone might be doing perfectly, but that doesn't amount to much when the 7 others barely know what to do yet. Because, y'know, nobody's doing practice, only clears and farms. Because it's easier to cry about bad DPS than actually creating the opportunity for people to learn.

I know there are bad DPS out there, but DPS is not the alpha and omega of everything. It's usually one actual bad one in any party, if any at all, and it's not even noticeable because the content can still be done if the others are actually good (with exceptions ofc, but still). And whoever's bad, trust me, they know. (If they just don't care, that's different thing, and as pointed out, can't be helped, no matter what.) In any case, lower your expectations when in a random party. In a static, or even a tight-knit FC: sure, you know each other, you do pretty much everything together, you can work together, you're familiar with what everyone can do. Random parties are different. You'll never be grouped with 7 other people who know and can do everything as perfectly as you.

So just - stop this whining about DPS already. It's bloody annoying. Bloody annoying to see thread after thread after thread popping up about this. Trust me, I could create threads about dumb tanks and awful healers as well, and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one. Yet you don't see those festering on p1 on a pretty much daily basis.

[Onikimaru]

snip

I completely disagree, not everybody has to be perfect to do content and meet DPS checks, you just have to know how to read. Like "oh hey this is my strongest attack after this combo?, maybe if i use my buffs with it i can do more damage" Obviously there is more to it than that but using those grounds as a medium with the knowledge you gather from 1-60 you can pretty much be an average to higher tier DPS. And with how long it takes to get from 1-60 and how long this game has been out for, it is absolutely atrocious that some DPS do less than tanks(ones in an actual tank stance). Also if you didn't know yes DPS is key to everything...how did you come to the conclusion that nothing in this game requires DPS because as far as i have seen...everything pretty much does.

People will not stop whining because the people that do 300-400 DPS at i180 are wasting every bodies time and energy, people call for parsers because it is against the ToS to call these people out on it. Hell a ton of my friends haven't cleared BEX yet because of DPS, same with ravana, same with alexander normal, same with the other EX primals same with chrysalis. I do agree that the threads need to stop, but a lot of those bad DPS come to these forums, like the other day i saw somebody post a comment replying to something about a DPS check and they said they removed buff abilities from the hotbar because they "don't do much" and that they don't do positionals because the damage isn't worth moving for. If these people haven't noticed...you're holding others back and wasting peoples time. These threads will do more good than harm and hopefully make others aware of other peoples effort and time they've put in.

I myself have played every job(pre-HW). I can tell you right now that the only difficult thing about most jobs is their openers..that's it. Keeping buffs up hard?, put another hotbar on your screen and up-size it. Have trouble keeping up your DoT's and debuffs?, put them just above your hotbar, it's what i do to keep track of them(you can also activate a setting that lets you see only the DoT's you inflict. A little bit of thought goes a very long way and i thought of these things just after i hit 50, it's not hard to think.

I personally never complain and really do not care the majority of the time, but i definitely do sympathize with people that need to do these things with random groups, it can be very stressful and in some cases make people quit because they can't get things done. That is also another very big reason why people need to see how their performance actually is because it does lead to this game losing subscribers.

On a side note yeah it can get annoying when every party is farm only but given the information and feedback from a lot of people it's no wonder they're strict!. If it weren't you'd never ever get anything done.

[Jim_Berry]

Newsflash: that's not the case. Because that guy that's not doing as much damage as you, or even as much as another DPS, might actually be doing mechanics and helping the party to avoid a wipe, y'know.

I remember when I was a BRD back when the Ex Primals of Garuda, Ifrit, and Titan were a thing. Only me and the PLD were left while fighting Ifrit. Just as I lost my last bit of HP, Ifrit died from a tick of my Venomous Bite. Instead of cheers, the BLM said "he'd been dead if ur dmg didnt suck" lol... Although my damage was probably low, my survival rate was extremely high compared to the other DPS. Oh well!

[Gilraen]

I remember when I was a BRD back when the Ex Primals of Garuda, Ifrit, and Titan were a thing. Only me and the PLD were left while fighting Ifrit. Just as I lost my last bit of HP, Ifrit died from a tick of my Venomous Bite. Instead of cheers, the BLM said "he'd been dead if ur dmg didnt suck" lol... Although my damage was probably low, my survival rate was extremely high compared to the other DPS. Oh well!

Differences in mindsets... that kind of win would have me cheering, the elation of snatching victory from defeat is second to none.

[CrimsonThunder]

I swear the mindset here makes me think of my primary school playground days. If you wanted to play football but you weren't very good at it then you didn't get to play football because the other kids said so.

Let's say you get your 'lock'....how many subscriptions get lost because a less skilful is hit by a wall designed for only the better 10%? Suddenly people don't wanna play.

Then you come screaming on the forums that the game is dead.

This is a social game designed to try and appease everyone. Just....deal with it or move on.

[Assirra]

I swear the mindset here makes me think of my primary school playground days. If you wanted to play football but you weren't very good at it then you didn't get to play football because the other kids said so.

Let's say you get your 'lock'....how many subscriptions get lost because a less skilful is hit by a wall designed for only the better 10%? Suddenly people don't wanna play.

Then you come screaming on the forums that the game is dead.

This is a social game designed to try and appease everyone. Just....deal with it or move on.

But doesn't that work both ways?

Maybe some people want to play with others that actually know the very basics from their job?

Or do these people not count with "everyone"?

Also, the blame here is on SE for making this kind of content in the first place. The players that actually want to clear it are the ones seeing the issue and just speaking out.

[Krindor]

I swear the mindset here makes me think of my primary school playground days. If you wanted to play football but you weren't very good at it then you didn't get to play football because the other kids said so.

Let's say you get your 'lock'....how many subscriptions get lost because a less skilful is hit by a wall designed for only the better 10%? Suddenly people don't wanna play.

Then you come screaming on the forums that the game is dead.

This is a social game designed to try and appease everyone. Just....deal with it or move on.

But no one would like to play football with a kid that plays it with their hands instead of their feet. That's closer to the truth than skill level, if they would just look up what football is they would stop playing with their hands and probably do much better.


Also the lock wouldn't be for the 10%, it would be at the level needed to beat the content, for current Alex I would say around 1k DPS for most DPS, less for BRD/MCH as this is more or less the lowest acceptable DPS to beat the fights and if you can't be over it you have no reason at all to be in Alex as you will be the reason it fails over and over again. Depending on class 1000 DPS is easily reachable by spending 30 min reading about the class and 1-2 hours practicing.

[Erim-Nelhah]

Also the lock wouldn't be for the 10%, it would be at the level needed to beat the content, for current Alex I would say around 1k DPS for most DPS, less for BRD/MCH as this is more or less the lowest acceptable DPS to beat the fights and if you can't be over it you have no reason at all to be in Alex as you will be the reason it fails over and over again. Depending on class 1000 DPS is easily reachable by spending 30 min reading about the class and 1-2 hours practicing.

I hope you mean Alex Savage.....1k dps in Alex Normal is waaaaaay overkill. Heck, I can probably do enough DPS as a DRK DPS to clear it (normal) easy.

--Erim Nelhah

[Colt47]

Well, the test I often do in a party that seems to be wiping on Alexander sometimes is to avoid over optimizing my damage output on my paladin for one round of the boss fight. If the change in dps from me not switching to sword stance in a single phase is enough to cuase the party to not be able to get past that phase, then the DPS aren't pushing hard enough and there's no point to trying to tank a for a group that is basically dragging it's feet.

I would never do this in an extreme fight, but given how easy it is to get eased into 170-180 gear right now before even stepping foot into Alexander normal, something is horribly wrong if a group has to struggle on phase 3 of the Living Liquid boss due to damage output.

-----More thoughts----

Honestly, part of the problem with low DPS is that a lot of people who run into a low dps character are on a time table. They expect a dungeon / raid to be finished within a specific amount of time, so they leave and it generates a lot of animosity.