Why does Enochian have to be a pain in the neck?

[Joronas]

I'll make it really, really simple: the only thing a half dozen experts prove is that the class isn't *impossible* to use.

They don't prove it's not broken, they prove that someone can do well in spite of it.

Most of the people who say they dislike the mechanics or find the mechanics broken have tried them. They've tried them extensively. And our conclusion is, they aren't fun and make the class worse overall. You few say that you can master them and use them for glory. The rest of us think "This class could be awesome if the enochian mechanics weren't so bloody awful".

[StouterTaru]

"This class could be awesome if the enochian mechanics weren't so bloody awful".

Then don't use it. Pretend it's just a mini-Raging Strikes, ignore Fire IV and Blizzard IV, and play 2.0 style. The real world damage increase of a F4 rotation is only about 15%, much less in high movement fights.

[Xisin]

I just get annoyed with the general attitude that the argument on the opposite of the fence is giving, I do not think of myself as a better person than any of you, not by any means. I do however feel that a level of commitment to something isn't a terrible thing.

This thread has gotten into a debate of what fun is. That's pretty much like arguing about difficulty (also brought up in this thread.) and that is totally subjective. Asking someone to disprove something is kind of funny though, considering arguments made by Bertland Russle here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Look, I get that some people aren't having fun with it. But I have a feeling that lack of success has something to do it with it, but at the same time numbers do not, which may not make sense to some, myself included. BLMS were fine running around doing 30-40% less dps than high end blms in the prevoious patches, which truth be told is about what the difference should break down to now. I pulled about 570 on turn 11 for instance varying by the week, events... whatever. Other blms I have seen can pull as little as 350 on that turn. 570*.3 = 171. 570-171=399, or 30% of that. BLM did not complain then, they just chalked it up to skill, time or whatever else.

Now let's talk about something in the middle ground, let's say alexander 1 normal mode. While I haven't like gone all out in the fight in recent times I can say that I can usually push 1100 in that turn while in a pug (so it jumps a ton). Usually if I'm paired with a pug blm they pull less than that... lets say 800ish. 1100*.3 =330. 1100-330 = 770. This is roughly about the same gap in terms of percentage, It's simply a larger number, but it has the same meaning.

So that being said is this strictly about not being able to use fire 4? Because the gaps now and the gaps then are near identical. If you couldn't cast fire 1 but pulled the same numbers would you of had the same argument then as you do now? I'm trying to understand why you want to change something that I personally have fun with (that fun argument you keep using) that is also balanced and works.

[Joronas]

Xisin, you're correct in many ways.

The difference I find is that before, while I wasn't top of the charts DPS, it was generally due to little things that could be optimized a bit more.

Now, it's one glaring thing that just feels like it's rubbing in my face that I'm not good enough. It feels like the entire Enochian mechanic was set up as a giant slam against people who are not able to micromanage everything to the degree to keep 95% uptime with optimal damage. Can you even integrate thunder successfully? Because when I try I either lose thunder or enochian on the 2nd phase; or waste procs. THAT'S why I find it not fun.

Tying that much DPS to one specific mechanic that gives people a lot of trouble doesn't always make the split any worse; but it does make the people on the opposite side feel worse about said split. At least IMO.

Throw in the 'git gud' (which again, comes across as scornful, insulting and so on), and I'm sure you can see why things escalate quickly there.

[Core1019]

I've read about 10 pages of this thread. I learned something new from it.... Apparently all midgets like the phrase "git gud".

[Aysin]

Rather than fun sounds more like they want the class to be easy. Back in 2.0 the concept of playing BLM is easy and outside of that they cared little. Now that the rotation requires attention, timing and a decent level of skill, it seems to be not fun anymore. Personally I love the way BLM is now, and I find the job significantly more fun than it was in 2.0 because of the challenges that are currently present on the rotation. But maybe I'm different, I love BLM as a class for better and for worse and currently vs SMN it sort of is for worse simply because SMN can out perform BLM because of the way most fights are set up. But that won't stop me from trying to do better than them regardless. If you don't like the class play a different one because the people that actually like it now don't want to see it changed for worse.

[Joronas]

If you don't like the class play a different one because the people that actually like it now don't want to see it changed for worse.

Gee Aysin ... if only we'd thought to say something like that before they changed BLM on us with HW... not all changes are for the worse. Ley lines, sharpcast.. those are neat and add something. Maybe, just maybe, if Enochian got fixed into something that more people liked, then you'd find you enjoyed it more to? Sometimes you just want to play the game and not feel like you're struggling .. to be in the running for 3rd place.

Because that part about you not wanting it changed for the worse? That's what I think has been done to it already.

[Noob_Sauce]

The class IS - NOT - SHIT!
(snip)
bosses and raids? Besides neverreap (the very bain of our class sometimes)
(snip)

So you admit there is a problem? Because until you get up to Alexander ILV, Neverreap seams to be the "go-to" dungeon for end game shenanigans.

[StouterTaru]

So you admit there is a problem? Because until you get up to Alexander ILV, Neverreap seams to be the "go-to" dungeon for end game shenanigans.

A dungeon having two bosses that are rough for every job, including BLM, means there is a problem with BLM?

Give me a tank that pulls more than 2-3 mobs at a time, and I'll blow away any other dps in Neverreap or any other dungeon.

[OneWingedSora]

Give me a tank that pulls more than 2-3 mobs at a time, and I'll blow away any other dps in Neverreap or any other dungeon.

Not a Summoner.