Is Paladin in a Bad Spot?

[Phoenicia]

Timing IB is not rocket science. A basic understanding the fight allowed for you to have it up for every important mechanic. You even have a fail safe in the method of infuriate if you need to use it.

It is not that timing IB is hard. NOTHING in this game is "hard". It is just more prone to mistakes and miss timing.

If for whatever you used a WS (locking yourself in GCD) while boss is casting a tank buster, you are more likely gonna be hit by the full damage of the tank buster before you can use IB. Inversely, you pop IB too early thinking the tank buster is coming only to notice the cast bar beginning on the last second of IB's duration. Yes you can fix it with Infuriate. But that's a waste of CD, which is a price (punishment) you pay for a mistake.

On the other hand, as a PLD/DRK, you just pop CD between GCDs and you're set. Not to mention, if a PLD pops a CD slightly early, they are still on the safe side since their buff isn't just 6 seconds long.

I'm not gonna argue over the efficiency since we all know, outside of Vengeance, WAR CDs suck by themselves without IB in comparison.

Snip.

No you're right, I derped. Cover + HG mitigates Flatten only and not the Flare Breaths. I will edit.

[Twilite]

No it isn't >_>.

[Xenosan]

It is not that timing IB is hard. NOTHING in this game is "hard"
If for whatever you used a WS (locking yourself in GCD) while boss is casting a tank buster, you are more likely gonna be hit by the full damage of the tank buster before you can use IB. Inversely, you pop IB too early thinking the tank buster is coming only to notice the cast bar beginning on the last second of IB's duration. Yes you can fix it with Infuriate. But that's a waste of CD, which is a price (punishment) you pay for a mistake.

On the other hand, as a PLD/DRK, you just pop CD between GCDs and you're set.

I think you just contradicted yourself. If you ignore player-error because nothing is 'hard,' then the PROs/CONs of IB vs CD rotations are a non-factor. But if we are talking including player-error, then you can't ignore the potential cons of CD rotation either.

Which is to say if a DRK/PLD screw up their CD rotation, they will not have the right CD available for the next tank buster - possibly getting CDs out of sync - and possibly eating TBusters nekkid if everything's on CD. Thats the equivalent player-error scenario of for PLD/DRK. Know the fight and the proper CD rotation for it - just as a Warrior has to know the fight to time IB appropriately.

[Skold]

Sorry OP, you make a lot of good points - however, just as we compared how Dark Knight would do in old fights compared to Paladins we have to look at how Paladins fare in the new content. The fact is new savage fights have strict DPS requirements and you are vastly underestimating how much Dark Knights do in compassion to Paladin. It's not 100 DPS, it's a couple hundred. Dark Knights self healing rotation is also their DPS rotation capable of putting up around 700 in Grit while ranking. PLD can't do that, it can't come anywhere near it. Not only that, we handle a majority of the tank busters better than Paladin. The time in between matters very little when we have bards and machinists recovering the mana of our healers and the amount of damage going out between tank busters being fairly negligible. PLD has issues.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

I'm not contradicting myself at all.

Screwing CD rotation is an error all three tanks are prone to. Popping vengeance with ToB when you shouldn't for example means you will take the next buster without a CD. That's not an error that is DRK/PLD exclusive. Popping Unchained when a tank buster is coming leaves you without wrath stacks for IB.

Mistiming IB is a lot easier than mistiming Rampart. The latter lasts a whole 14 seconds longer, does not conflict with GCD so you cannot lock yourself in the GCD by mistake, and does not require an additional resource.

Popping IB at the wrong time may leave you exposed unless you use infuriate. But that is also a risk if in your CD rotation you need to extend IB duration with infuriate popping IB back to back to mitigate multi-hit busters.

The point is IB is more prone to additional error while PLD/DRK enjoy the safety of pop CD and relax for x seconds.

Snip.

I would love to see a parse of a DRK staying in Grit and pulling 700 DPS on a dummy... Never mind a real fight with downtime.

Lucrezia announced their PLD MT pulled 650 DPS when they cleared As3. THEY CLEARED IT WITH A PLD. Is PLD lacking? Maybe... Is it not viable? Hell no, it is very viable. Lucrezia is world second As3. What do you have to say to them?

PLD has issues? yes... So does every other damn job! DRG and NIN cannot AoE like BLM and SMN. BRD and MCN cannot single target like melee nor AoE like casters. But each job brings something to the table that makes you take them. Same is true for healers and tanks.

The princesses calling themselves PLD need to man up and stop crying about their job and learn to work with their powers around their flaws, period.

[SirTaint]

Where is the PLD lol

https://twitter.com/Lucrezia_Alex/st...24619542286336

[OPneedNerfs]

LolWARs being delusional and/or trying to keep their status as top dog of tank classes.

[Phoenicia]

LolWARs being delusional and/or trying to keep their status as top dog of tank classes.

Hmmm, let's see here...

Is WAR the MT of choice?

Is WAR the tank that EVERYONE rolls when they realize their previous tank class is not fun/viable?

Is WAR so "top dog" that double WAR groups are so rampant and are running everywhere?

Answer these simple questions and then discuss their status as "top dog".

As it is now, WAR is pigeon-holed into the OT spot. Most tank players do not like to be set into OT. And I am by no means a WAR main. It is just that the amount of crying about classes is getting ridiculous. I mean DRK is crying about being "squishy" and PLD is crying about their DPS. Yet I don't see many cry-on-forums types demanding buffs to make WAR MT more often. Maybe WARs should cry about them being a last option MT. "First OT option" doesn't make them top dogs nor justifies them not MTing and everyone is saying PLD and DRK are "fine OTs". And unless WAR becomes "Best choice MT", it is by no means a "top dog" status.

[Skold]

Lol@that clear pic. I'm not crying about DRK being squishy because DRK isn't squishy

[Februs]

PLD dmg is fine. Off tanking, Pld can rotate two Royal Authority combos for every one Goring blade/CoS/Fracture tripple DoT application, and Royal Authority has a consistent dmg potency that is higher than all of Drk's base combo's when NOT under the effect of Dark Arts. If it weren't for Drk simply having MORE attacks to rotate, Pld would easily out dmg Drk as OT. That being said, a few points you made are a bit off or misleading. Sword oath, for one example, is a FLAT increase of +50 potency on every AUTO ATTACK. It's nice to say that it's a 11-15% increase in dps, but that's not accurate. The target's Def at Mit reduce it further. Sword Oath is pitiful. The only reason it's worth mentioning is because Pld weapons have a decent rate of auto-attack. At most, it adds a 4th, weak, DoT to your arsenal, and that's really only applicable POST expansion. Pre-expansion, it's utterly useless and not anywhere near as effective as Drk's overall 15% increase on all attacks.