Good Tanks or Bad Tanks

[bridgetmobyvixen]

I am pretty new to this game...been playing just about a month and have a WHM around lvl 45 (yes I play a lot and am completely addicted).

I have been doing both of the daily roullette's and have noticed a huge variation in the amount of healing I have to do for the tank. I understand they are up close and personal with the enemies we are fighting but some of them barely need any healing and I can turn on my cleric stance and rip some enemies myself. Other tanks require me to spam that cure almost constantly.

Do some just have really bad armor or are they not using proper techniques to dodge enemy attacks? I know I tend to scoochie when the orange light appears under my feet since most of my armor is nice breathable cotton and I can die in like an instant if not careful.

I was just curious what other healers think about the tanks in these dungeons.

Thanks,
Bridget

[pandabearcat]

90% of survivability (on random mooks) is simply better armor.

The rest is well popping CDs on a big pack.

It is very possible to be a bad tank...but tanks simply do not have enough tools to make a huge difference between a "decent" tank and "good" tank and a "world class" tank.

Basically at that point it is the tank actually taking more damage, and trying to more damage.

[GeekMatt]

As a PLD main, during dungeons I can cycle my buffs for covering nearly 100% of the time spent taking damage while still reserving big buffs for big damage (this is at about level 50). My hp rarely dips and dives in dungeons except with healers (like myself) who try to pump every bit of DPS when they can, but I also prioritize survivability as a tank and only add in DPS accessories if/when appropriate, whereas often times I'll find I'm healing tanks in full DPS accessories their first time through a new instance at minimum level/iLevel. The ladder are the tanks that slow down runs and occasionally cause wipes (or with inexperienced healers, can cause failures).

Another thing I'm seeing right now is an issue with DRKs--not the job itself, but the fact that it's a fun/attractive job means that there's a lot of people playing it who have never tanked before or may not even have interest in learning the role. At your level, the biggest noticeable difference between a good and bad PLD is their ability to manage aggro, but for DRK the difference is squishiness.

Lastly there's WARs, who have a deep hp pool for lower mitigation, but also self heals. So it's not unusual for their hp to fluctuate a bit more. Though at higher levels they can maintain their high hp with very little dipping and diving when played right (in your average dungeon).

[Raminax]

I wouldn't go as far as saying that tanks don't have enough tools to excel. A tank that uses cooldowns for tank busters is infinitely better than someone who just pops them at random. And a tank that actually uses cooldowns at all is a fair bit better than the noobs who claim that spamming Flash is stressful for the Tank role.

But, generally speaking, considering you do daily roulettes, there are a lot of factors to consider. For example:

- Tank mitigation is spread rather unevenly until lvl50. Paladins have a fair amount of decent cooldowns early on, but lack a tanking stance until lvl40. Meanwhile, Warriors and Dark Knights get their tanking stance at lvl30 already, but Warriors are kinda lacking in the cooldown department, while Dark Knights are sandwiched inbetween the two.
- DPS! The faster enemies die, the less damage the tank will take. If two out of three enemies in a trash pack die while a defensive cooldown is still up, damage intake will remain fairly low throughout the pull. If none of them die before the defensive cooldown expires, damage intake can jump sharply. Similarly, some DPS can inflict Stuns and other debuffs with their regular DPS rotation; that counts for something.
- General player skill. Obviously, a tank that eats every single instance of avoidable damage will be significantly harder to heal compared to one who dodges most things.

[bridgetmobyvixen]

I guess it does make sense that armor for the tank classes have some variations for different attributes or buffs. I know it try to pick the stuff with the bonus to mind, piety, or determination so I can boost my healing as much as possible.

I try to determine how much healing our tank needs so I know to reserve all of my MP for healing or not though a couple times while watching the hp bar on the tank and casting cure after casting regen on them they take so much damage they die. I am not sure what else I could if I dedicate my services to the healing process but they are in the middle of 5 enemies getting beat to hell. I always throw out protect and if the dungeon is high enough level try to do stoneskin.

Oddly enough in the lower levels it is not a big deal but in the higher levels I can run out of mp pretty fast since regen can't always keep up.

Thanks for the responses!

Bridget

[Niyuka]

According to my healers there is a MASSIVE difference between equally geared tanks, depending on the player. One MAJOR problem is back strikes. Some mobs seem to have backstab-style attacks, and when you get hit from behind, mobs hit more, harder, and/or you cant block/parry it. Lots of tanks in AOE situations dont really make sure they face their front to all mobs (as its easy to lose track), or when repositioning they run with their back turned, instead of backstepping, leading to one massive spike of backstabs. Not all mobs do it (some are casters who dont care obviously), but along with decent stuns, good CD usage and good timing on dodges, the difference in healing required can be huge.

[Kuwaitum]

I am a main WHM, and have been having one Lv.50 class/job (CNJ/WHM) for over an active year and a half. So I saw a rainbow colours of tanks.. At a certain point when I had only bad Tanks, I decided to try out Tanking classes. Now I'm a i178 (Lv.60 WAR) & a Lv.55 WHM. I love my healers I never try to make them just heal, I am a white mage.. I know how boring continous healing is.

I never rage at my healers, I always 'dance' to avoid most damage.. I can't tell you how happy I was when a white mage said to me: "Ivory I love healing you! You're the best Tank I ran with in months!"

As I say, a Tank is who loves his/her healer & protects his team.

[Sida]

If you have a squishy tank, take a glance to their equipment. Was in AV healing the other day with my 51+ SCH and we barely passed the first boss. I was running out of mana on constantly chain healing the tank and I thought that it really hadn't been that bad earlier when I'd been there. I took a glance to tanks gear and all her items were 35 to 40, with occasional item on 30. Since she was openly alluding I'm bad heals, I asked her to humor me and tell what her iLvl is as by my calculation, it couldn't be even 40, AV is level 49 place. She was a good sport of it though, when he took a look on it she profusely apologised telling she had been leveling so quick lately that she hadn't realised her gear was lacking behin, and offered to take the leave penalty so we can get proper tank. ^^ (We ended up vote abandoning, though)

[technole]

She was a good sport of it though, when he took a look on it she profusely apologised telling she had been leveling so quick lately that she hadn't realised her gear was lacking behin, and offered to take the leave penalty so we can get proper tank. ^^ (We ended up vote abandoning, though)

People who let their gear take a backseat, are bad players in-general. There isn't any beating around the bush on that subject. They are what they wear, and the best thing is they can control that. It's telling the party they don't care about their performance, and likely a telling sign they will have to get carried by a healer, and of course no one wants to have to deal with that. Of course if they are busy FATEing to power level and not upgrade gear, well I don't know what to say.

That is the reality, someone has to say it.

[Seryl199]

An undergeared tank can be troublesome, especially if they have trouble using proper cooldowns. I had a tank once in Stone Vigil that was so squishy, his health chunked to critical almost instantly in the pack with three dragon aevis, and couldn't survive Isgebind's Frost Breath.

You should take the time to familiarize yourself with the different CD's that tanks have, and learn what the buff icon looks like. When you see strong mitigation CD's going up like Rampart, Sentinel, Vengeance, and the like, you'll know the tank is going to take reduced damage for a bit, and that's generally the safest time to sneak in some Cleric Stance time so long as the tank is healthy. Watch out for the occasional tanks that eat avoidable AoE damage, some of these abilities can hit extremely hard, or apply troublesome debuffs, or even knock the tank back, causing them to pull extra mobs nearby.

The more you play, the more you'll see what tanks are doing right, and what they're doing wrong, since most of the time, it directly affects you as a healer. Tanks that secure aggro quickly, position packs tightly together, keep up proper mitigation, dodge AoE's and properly interrupt enemy abilities are awesome, enjoy it when you're partied with them.