Is Paladin in a Bad Spot?

[Sleigh]

Because drk has more advantages on top of that. More damage, more threat, an extra cooldown pld doesn't get, and self heals. Don't give me clemency, if healers arn't dumb it's almost always overhealing with long cast, not to mention you have to give up even more damage to heal unlike a drk who heals while doing damage. Again I don't think pld is terrible but how is drk not just a better pld?

Shield, more consistent STR down debuff than Reprisal, better CDs when talking about purely physical attacks, Clemency/Protect/Divine Veil, Hallowed Ground.

PLD is more survivable, in virtually every fight in the game (including A3S, which yes world first put PLD out of in favor of DRK's higher MT DPS and Reprisal to ease mechanic damage), mainly from their shield but also core things like Sheltron and better Sentinel/HG. You'd have to put them in a fight like Ramuh where you can argue DRK is just plain better, otherwise there are advantages and disadvantages to both (and I'd argue most fights highly favor PLD's advantages).

[SpookyGhost]

Because drk has more advantages on top of that. More damage, more threat, an extra cooldown pld doesn't get, and self heals. Don't give me clemency, if healers arn't dumb it's almost always overhealing with long cast, not to mention you have to give up even more damage to heal unlike a drk who heals while doing damage. Again I don't think pld is terrible but how is drk not just a better pld?

PLD brings a shield, Hallowed, Sheltron, Divine Veil, Clemency, etc.

DRK isn't better, it just brings different things, as does PLD.

Also WAR has IB up for every Flare Breath, and a combination of IB + large CD for every Flatten + Flare Breath after (3x Flare Breath only lasts the first phase, so it's pretty irrelevant, and you can have Vengeance up for them anyway). WAR was fine for mitigating the extra fluff damage packed on with the tank busters.

For farm content/DPS checks, WAR/WAR or DRK/WAR is certainly the most optimal way to go (as evidenced by WF A3S), but if that DPS check can be easily met with WAR/PLD or DRK/PLD then there's no reason to exclude PLDs (WF A1S, WF A2S). If you can still clear the thing in plenty of time then tank choice doesn't matter.

[Phoenicia]

DRK isn't better, it just brings different things, as does PLD.

Also WAR has IB up for every Flare Breath, and a combination of IB + large CD for every Flatten + Flare Breath after (3x Flare Breath only lasts the first phase, so it's pretty irrelevant, and you can have Vengeance up for them anyway). WAR was fine for mitigating the extra fluff damage packed on with the tank busters.

My point is that due to CD duration, WAR has to work around while the other tanks just press 1 button. However, what you mention is that how EVERY tank can handle all fights. They just do it differently. Neglecting CD duration and frequency of use in how to mitigate damage is beyond foolish. The whole party should know that and plan around their tank.

In T13, monks knew PLDs can cover them to negate the whole puddle thing in Earth Shaker to increase their DPS for example. Healers can pop cleric stance when they know it's time for Hallowed Ground on the next buster for added DPS. Those traits are PLD exclusive.

Those jobs play differently, as a result they perform the same things differently. Knowing your tools as a whole raid is what matters. Not what 100 or 50 DPS difference does. If your PLD also has DRK leveled, then there is no reason not to bring the better job for whatever you are trying to accomplish. But that 50 DPS loss is DEFINITELY not the reason to drop PLD from your static.

[karateorangutang]

Seems to me we have two camps in all these arguments.

- Optimal = Best mitigation and clearing in the easiest manner possible for the raid group. ( My healer's always preferred healing PLD for some reason. It was comfortable for them and HP drops were not as frequent.)

- Optimal = Clearing content in the quickest time possible. ( Where group DPS is the focus.)

I would wager this is where we get this argument.

Can both clear?
Sure.

Can both farm?
Sure.

One is safe and comfy like a motorhome and the other is fast and dangerous like a motorcycle. This comes down to raid group composition ( personalities, not jobs or classes) as to what tank is the best for a given situation.

[Inosaska]

The only problem i see with paladin is the fact that people play it too defensively. Sometimes you gotta get your hands dirty, and stance dancing a paladin can be clunky. but it can be done effectively. While looking into a1 savage, came across this video, if you actually care about paladin, watch this guys play and stive to be more like him. I know I am.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9R6mTyLje0

Okay that sold me on wanting to level pld after I get my smn to level 60 seriously that was awesome!

[Calib0s]

Just want to clear something up: World first A3 Savage had a extremely strict DPS check, so strict it took people a LOT longer than A1 and A2 Savage.

They had DRK/WAR, no PLD. So they evidently did feel the need to change to something not PLD.

They actually had a few job changes in order to make the final DPS push here. A significant reason for the switch to DRK was that they dropped MNK but still wanted to have the -10% int debuff.

The slight extra DPS from DRK certainly wouldn't hurt though.

[Seku]

Okay that sold me on wanting to level pld after I get my smn to level 60 seriously that was awesome!

Except it's typical and has been being done since ARR by many Hard core tanks in general? Though applied to a new fight.

[NorthernLadMSP]

From a healers perspective, I would much rather get a paladin in groups (specifically DF) than any other tank. Seems to be a lot less derpy paladins than warriors or dark knights.

[Seku]

From a healers perspective, I would much rather get a paladin in groups (specifically DF) than any other tank. Seems to be a lot less derpy paladins than warriors or dark knights.

Because their cool down's are easy to use and don't need as much timed use.

[Edewen]

Except it's typical and has been being done since ARR by many Hard core tanks in general? Though applied to a new fight.

So much edge. Really though. It is far from the typical behavior of the average player. Which is where the majority of feedback comes from. Most paladins are content to sit in shield oath, tank their boss, then complain their damage is low. The video simply shows that paladins don't have to be as bland as the average player makes it.