Fending vs. Slaying accessories at this point in the game

[Yorumi]

He said he drops his tank stance if the healer doesn't DPS, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Even a PLD can jump from 350-400dps to 600-700+ dps swapping to Sword Oath. If you aren't going to carry your weight you should be glad the tank is willing to do it for you.

No it a total fail tank. It's a BS response on all levels. If a healer isn't dpsing there's probably a good reason for it, like the tank is taking too damn much damage. Yeah taking 20% more is going to help that situation. If a tank so desperately wants to be a dps go play a damn dps.

I think I'm just going to start refusing to heal any tank that's not using their tank stance other than in appropriate situations. You want to make my life hell, and my dungeon runs stressful and not fun then I'll return the favor.

[Dante_V]

And I'll be flat out honest, 90% of the drks I've seen are pulling abysmal dps numbers. There are exceptions but from what I've seen they are few and far between.

[MythToken]

Any good tank knows when a healer is struggling to heal them, and would stay in Tank stance and mitigate.
Any good tank also knows when the mob is hitting them with a wet noodle, and killing it faster is the way to go / DPS stance.

What a good tank will not do is take giant hits in DPS stance and make the healer overheal/struggle to keep them up just because they are too lazy to switch.

It's just not a black and white situation. You don't stand in Tank mode all the time, and you dont stand in DPS mode all the time. There is a reason you can switch in combat.

[Yorumi]

Any good tank knows when a healer is struggling to heal them, and would stay in Tank stance and mitigate.
Any good tank also knows when the mob is hitting them with a wet noodle, and killing it faster is the way to go / DPS stance.

What a good tank will not do is take giant hits in DPS stance and make the healer overheal/struggle to keep them up just because they are too lazy to switch.

My problem with this is these things are all good in theory but in practice you never actually see anyone doing it. Do you think people are complaining about tanks just for the fun of it? Just because all healers are lazy and want to take a nap during dungeon runs? Or maybe because outside of statics a tank who can properly turn off tank stance without stressing the healer applies to maybe half a percent of the population?

In my experience most tanks think they're dps, that their role is the same as a dps, and as long as they're alive at the end of a fight they're a great tank. That any and all problems are the healer's fault, and if the healer can't keep them alive in dps stance then it means the healer is bad. That is my experience with at least 90% of the drks I get paired with, and even with the other tanks included it's still by far the majority of tanks. This is all 50+ mind you so they should damn well know how to play.

People arn't complaining about tanks just for the fun of it but because there is a serious problem with tanks thinking they're uber awesome dps.

[Ipkonfig]

@Yorumi - Everything you are stating is based on conjecture, just because you've had bad experiences doesn't mean that's just how it is. You also seem to contradict yourself. You stated you had good experiences and yet apply this blanket statement "people aren't complaining about tanks just for the fun of it but because there is a serious problem with tanks thinking they're uber awesome dps."

And if we're talking about random DF PUGs, well you just have to accept bad. Find a tank you like and run your dungeons with them.

I run full STR stats and a few slaying accessories and my WHM always has room to DPS, stop running with bad tanks.

[FallenWings]

I agree in that we all need to stop with this mindless craze in which STR > Everything, despite being a player that does full str spec and slaying accessories for everything. Ever.

We are giving inexperienced players the wrong message.

Vitality is important; it allows mistakes to occur and not completely wipe the raid should things go awry. HP is infact defense and does reduce the risk of death in the same sense you would put on more armor to stop a bullet from ripping through your skull and eviscerating your brain.

The issue is not STR accessories, but general tank players need to be adaptable to more situations. A good tank (in my opinion) is one that is adjustable to any playstyle that his teammates can handle.

However the performance of a tank is dependent on his team, not just himself.
So going on from that line, if a tank defends properly against every attack yet the group demands he/she stack more vit; it means the group is incapable. If you're fine with that then alright; I guess that's how you play. But personally, I don't think anyone should be fine with mediocrity. Ironic isn't it? When you demand tanks be "better" by stacking more VIT.

Tanks are not just brickwalls. They are players who are clad with heavy armour for superior protection and equipped with a shield and a sword. Do not love them for just their shield, for their sword is also there to cut down the fool that keeps hitting them.

And you.

And your dog.

TL;DR Tank properly and DPS properly. If you're doing that but your team can't keep up, put up more defense for their sake. If they still demand more, they're bad, but do it anyways if it means you will win. Also dogs.

[SirTaint]

That's a great point.

Clearing is the goal. Even in my static the healers sometimes ask me to wear i150 hybrids and they are exceptional healers. Would anyone ever convince me to rock full Fending accessories, hell no. But we have to make compromises.

[Zfz]

just because you've had bad experiences doesn't mean that's just how it is

I run full STR stats and a few slaying accessories and my WHM always has room to DPS, stop running with bad tanks.

I'd just like to point out that...just because you've had good experiences doesn't mean that's just how it is.

Let's just acknowledge each other's experiences and agree that none of us have it right all the time. Be it pro-STR or pro-VIT. We are all wrong sometimes, we just choose to remember the times when we are right.

[Fersaken]

This argument is old and very redundant, a tanks dps really shouldn't contribute to the raid downing a boss.

Do what you want, I could care less, me I will stack vit until agro becomes an issue ( which I know it won't ). The reason for this is because as good as some of you people "think you are" you really aren't that good. I am sure you have caused a wipe because of your low hp, or because you forgot to pop a cool down when you should have. Stacking vit, allows for this to happen.

I seriously doubt anyone posting on this forum is absent of mistake, and you are only one person. Throw in 7 other people, static or not and you have 8 people who are NOT perfect, they may play well, but again they are only human. Having the buffer is intelligent, not having it is moronic.

[SirTaint]

A1 Savage is a great example of a turn that requires tanks to DPS (STR) in order to even get to the boss.

Then the boss has a 25,000 damage tank buster that will require tanks to stat some VIT until our left side is a higher ilvl.

If SE only wanted us to wear VIT they wouldn't have added a ~6500 DPS check to the beginning of savage, that requires a chunk of STR on tanks and DPSing healers.