So, whats left of the original FFXIV?

[Seif]

Several points my good Sir!

1. FFXI's storyline does have completeness. Each expansion and set of main quests has a beginning, middle, and end. The story lines in each case are vivid and the characters memorable.
I remember having a lot of good memories with nation quests, Zilart, CoP, ToAU, WotG, and now Abyssea. (the three tiny expansions ACP, MKE, ASA were fun but not what I consider "main".) I mean the main ones... You grew attached to those characters, a lot and when you beat them there was a solid sense of accomplishment.
So I wouldn't say MMO players are used to lower standards at all, but I think in this case it really is SE needs to not drop the ball ... rather stop dropping the ball.

2. I agree that the number of missions is small, but more than that... They're just all half baked. In XI when you started nation quests you stuck to your nation, despite having certain missions that bled in with other nations- i.e. Rank 5 Shadow Lord Fight.

In XIV you start off at a nation, and for 2/3 nations you have a pretty sweet setup and then... they melt together. You get a fairly useless NPC companion and you lose all originality. I won't even go into how badly they dropped the ball with Gridania... it still makes me cry.

3. Right again Sir Seif but only partly?! They need to add more in between quests and missions regarding the nations and their place in the main storyline!

However... they already have skill requirements in regards to what content you can/cannot do. It doesn't work very well because the leveling is all weird. So it becomes frustrating and disjointed and any hope of entering the flow state or becoming attached to an NPC is shot.

XI had level requirements for their missions but because the way you leveled up in the game you didn't feel them and was able to progress through the missions/quests smoothly.

I've made a thread pointing some of this stuff out a while back. It's a bit of a read but you can check it out if you feel up for it. It's called Continuity and it's under General Discussion.

In any case, thanks for your time! =D

English isn't my main language so I thank you for presenting this issue so cohesively.

I didn't want to imply that MMO's story shouldn't expand via expansions. But when doing so playing through cohesive plotlines is much more rewarding than being on drip-fed story by several writers and game designers changing the way the story is told in the process.

[Hulan]

Several points my good Sir!

1. FFXI's storyline does have completeness. Each expansion and set of main quests has a beginning, middle, and end. The story lines in each case are vivid and the characters memorable.
I remember having a lot of good memories with nation quests, Zilart, CoP, ToAU, WotG, and now Abyssea. (the three tiny expansions ACP, MKE, ASA were fun but not what I consider "main".) I mean the main ones... You grew attached to those characters, a lot and when you beat them there was a solid sense of accomplishment.
So I wouldn't say MMO players are used to lower standards at all, but I think in this case it really is SE needs to not drop the ball ... rather stop dropping the ball.

2. I agree that the number of missions is small, but more than that... They're just all half baked. In XI when you started nation quests you stuck to your nation, despite having certain missions that bled in with other nations- i.e. Rank 5 Shadow Lord Fight.

In XIV you start off at a nation, and for 2/3 nations you have a pretty sweet setup and then... they melt together. You get a fairly useless NPC companion and you lose all originality. I won't even go into how badly they dropped the ball with Gridania... it still makes me cry.

3. Right again Sir Seif but only partly?! They need to add more in between quests and missions regarding the nations and their place in the main storyline!

However... they already have skill requirements in regards to what content you can/cannot do. It doesn't work very well because the leveling is all weird. So it becomes frustrating and disjointed and any hope of entering the flow state or becoming attached to an NPC is shot.

XI had level requirements for their missions but because the way you leveled up in the game you didn't feel them and was able to progress through the missions/quests smoothly.

I've made a thread pointing some of this stuff out a while back. It's a bit of a read but you can check it out if you feel up for it. It's called Continuity and it's under General Discussion.

In any case, thanks for your time! =D

I'm one of those weird masochists that loved CoP before the difficulty change; all the same, I think CoP really hit the nail on the head as far as story content and setup went.

• They leveraged level capped fights to allow high and low level characters to do the missions from start to finish as fast or as slowly as they wanted.

• They included a large number of consistently difficult missions, giving low level players time to catch up to their high level compatriots.

• The characters were unique and interesting. Similarly, the interactions between you and the characters, and the characters and each other allowed for a good sense of narrative flow, allowing the player to participate in the story without feeling like he/she was just another person repeating the same events thousands of other people have already done

As an aside, FFXI did not actually have a complete story at release. Or rather, the story at release was not the fully realized story. At release, players could only finish up to rank... 5 I believe, which allowed them to fight the Shadow Lord, but not the subsequent 5 ranks of missions that were added to flesh out the story later.

[shankem]

Started with "3001-something"'and just seemed to be a really long number. It's posted over in the technical forums by another player, and it looks identical to the code I keep seeing.

i had same issues right after 1.18 release being dc'c constantly, i went into my computer and shut off all the auto update programs, java ,adobe, windows update,yahoo, etc.. and havnt had an issue since and now system even runs a bit faster. hope it helps

[Phen]

I'm one of those weird masochists that loved CoP before the difficulty change; all the same, I think CoP really hit the nail on the head as far as story content and setup went.

• They leveraged level capped fights to allow high and low level characters to do the missions from start to finish as fast or as slowly as they wanted.

• They included a large number of consistently difficult missions, giving low level players time to catch up to their high level compatriots.

• The characters were unique and interesting. Similarly, the interactions between you and the characters, and the characters and each other allowed for a good sense of narrative flow, allowing the player to participate in the story without feeling like he/she was just another person repeating the same events thousands of other people have already done

As an aside, FFXI did not actually have a complete story at release. Or rather, the story at release was not the fully realized story. At release, players could only finish up to rank... 5 I believe, which allowed them to fight the Shadow Lord, but not the subsequent 5 ranks of missions that were added to flesh out the story later.

This is worth noting again, FFXI people need to remember this as pre ROZ. Think about that. Think of how many zones and stories that removes. Honestly its not that far off at current.

That said. I want my mini-cs back some more. Lets go with the gather oil quest in gridania for example. The story telling there tells you a few things about the world (economics, goods, organizations) but its all text. In FFXI a small quest like that would probably have had the person asking for oil walk up while you talked to the other npc, cinematic camera change etc. I would like to see this come back. Of course they did a good deal of just text as well, but lets be awesome

The grand company stuff is going the right way but more dynamic cameras please.

[ZachCero]

I must say, with all the changes completed (and coming) FFXIV will soon be a completely different game than it was on the day of launch a year ago.

So what's left that hasn't changed?

Battle system - revamped
UI - in progress of being redone
World map - will be redone
Point allotment and levels system - near complete
Leves, NMs, claming system...
Crafting, gathering, transportation...

All being (or will be) changed in the near future.

If someone were to ask me what has changed (and what is being changed soon) I would have to say... everything. I seriously can not think of something in FFXIV aside from the actual modeling of the weapons and armor that hasn't undergone a serious change since last year.

I hope that the community knows just what kind of work that is for the dev team of FFXIV. Mad props for the hard work!

So, lets do what we can here to get FFXIV re-reviewed when PS3 release hits. They at least deserve that much.

Nothing more than a "Mog is in a good mood" thread, and a thank you to the people who are putting time into making FFXIV a better place. Devs, players, community members, forum posters, everyone.

Thank you.

Wow a positive thread by Dr, lol! I support your thread for once!

[syntaxlies]

They should have a re-review on the updated game. It'd only be fair..

they will at ps3 launch, anytime before that would only do more harm then good.

[Anapingofness]

English isn't my main language so I thank you for presenting this issue so cohesively.

I didn't want to imply that MMO's story shouldn't expand via expansions. But when doing so playing through cohesive plotlines is much more rewarding than being on drip-fed story by several writers and game designers changing the way the story is told in the process.

No, no, you did make some very valid points. And I agree, the hand holding/drip-feeding needs to go.

Yes you should let your players know how to play the game but after that let them loose. Otherwise it's a lot of wasted everything, potential, time, money, etc ^^

[Anapingofness]

I'm one of those weird masochists that loved CoP before the difficulty change; all the same, I think CoP really hit the nail on the head as far as story content and setup went.

• They leveraged level capped fights to allow high and low level characters to do the missions from start to finish as fast or as slowly as they wanted.

• They included a large number of consistently difficult missions, giving low level players time to catch up to their high level compatriots.

• The characters were unique and interesting. Similarly, the interactions between you and the characters, and the characters and each other allowed for a good sense of narrative flow, allowing the player to participate in the story without feeling like he/she was just another person repeating the same events thousands of other people have already done

As an aside, FFXI did not actually have a complete story at release. Or rather, the story at release was not the fully realized story. At release, players could only finish up to rank... 5 I believe, which allowed them to fight the Shadow Lord, but not the subsequent 5 ranks of missions that were added to flesh out the story later.

Oh man CoP before the difficulty change was brutal but it hurt so good.
/highfives
When you really beat a mission or a fight damn, you were on cloud nine! I completely get what you were talking about. XD

But the reason CoP was so good, even before the difficulty change, was because you basically fell in love with the story, the conflict, the characters. It made you wanna keep pushing on even though you'd get knocked down again and again.

I don't feel that here... It's really not a matter of completion, but a matter of presentation.

Speaking from Gridania's storyline... It's just a jumbled mess of very misleading signs and lack of continuity.
You start the game and they tell you that you can't go out into the forest because it's angry with you. If you go out it will try to eat you again. However, you are supposed to go out into the forest- and... well err, how that makes sense after the Opening CS and what the NPC's told you.. well that's beyond me.

Then you throw in a Crazy Cult, Faeries, and this "Curse" bit that will turn you into a monster if you don't get cleansed.... Oh! And people lying to well everyone- and, of course, rather annoying children. Speaking of children....
The most sensible person in all of Gridania is this kid, a boy, (whom I assume is like 10-14?) and he decides that he'll call shenanigans on the whole thing because by God someone has to so things will start making sense!
As it turns that's exactly what the doctor ordered but hey, god forbid they actually talk things out or not treat the kid like he's a retarded monkey.

D= So yeah, that's kind of what I mean.
Plus, for some dumb reason WotG and Abyssea story lines (mostly WotG) were given in several pieces but despite that, the presentation and overall completeness (as a written work, not the end of the story) was solid.

[Coyohma]

Hard work or not, the changes have hardly fixed what's wrong with XIV (to this point). Crippling delay in what we're seeing, how we're interacting with the game? Check. Very unrewarding attribute/gear statistics? Check. Bland, homogenized class system. Check. Barely any content, especially challenging content? Yup. Awkward UI still lacking many basic functions? Yes. And we're still looking at the same massive chunks of copy paste a year later. I could go on, but I think this says enough.

I realize they're working to change the above (though they haven't responded to the thread on the server/client relationship, which is a very serious issue..). But it's extremely slow and unfortunately, I don't think we're even getting a great deal of quality for all this time we're investing. Slow, -and- uninspired. I'm sorry, I just have so much venom concerning XIV. But they've earned it.

[CreedFallenwing]

i give my props to SE. anyone can make a game, anyone can make an incomplete game, anyone can take a good game and turn it into fail (example WoW). but it takes brave people to admit that they messed up and start fixing it. Granted that it could have only gotten better from the release till now, SE is still making good progress into making the game they originally promised.

i hope FFXIV gets a second review once PS3 version comes out. And when it does, i hope it pulls the rug out from under all the nay-sayers and bashers and i want to be there to see their faces when that happens.