[DRG] Concerning the recent Live Letter QA24 - Wheeling Thrust/Fang&Claw

[Remus]

Dragoon is fine how it is, but they do need to change Wheeling Thrust to make it a different skill from Fang and Claw and the damage loss for missing a positional and that's it. No one is asking to get rid of positionals, just because a person asked this question doesn't mean all dragoons share the opinion.

[TheKingSlayer]

It's fine the way it is, y'all just need to git gud. Drg is up there for highest melee dps if you play it correctly, have the skill, and attention to detail. If they give us the nerf, then it will be like mindless 2.0 rotation where any idiot can pull deeps. It's probably only the truly skilled players who want to keep it the way it is... but in the end, SE will give the bleeding heart Cash-uals their nerf for the new mindless 3.0 rotation. #ImAnElitistSoSueMe

[QCrimson]

then it will be like mindless 2.0 rotation where any idiot can pull deeps.

2.0 DRG wasn't mindless. 2.5 (I think ?) was.

[Lucael_Shikaree]

Dragoons were used to a "mechanic" rotation: basically wasn't that hard to keep a perfect rotation and positionals in 2.0. At the end of 2.0, we can admit that playing DRG was pretty easy and any average player would be not so different from a really good one. Now you're basically forced to tactical decisions, something Monks have known from a long time. Sure, having two identical 4ths that differs only for positioning sounds like lazy design but you should accept that sometimes you can miss a positional or just need to wait for them. About Ravana (a fight in which the "Seeing" move is the last of your problem as a DRG) the "Seeing" ability has 5s duration, you have 10 to perform 4th. It's the same of the beginning of 2.0, Garuda was an unforgiving battle for melee but sure can't be used as a template of all fight in 2.0. What really bothers me about the new mechanics is how much are affected by latency and the animation stun you get when you do 4th and the effect wears off.

[Lisotte]

I like the mechanic in that it makes you require active thinking, rather than simply repeating the same long rotation over and over again. It would be nicer if we got both abilities at once, but hey I think we ended up better than with say, Warden's Paeon. What a waste of a slot.

[Tilgung]

2.0 DRG wasn't mindless. 2.5 (I think ?) was.

2.45. and.. no?

It literally played the same. Only there wasn't a stupid "Did the boss turn, forcing me to try my positional again?"

The only change the rotation saw throughout 2.0 was the removal of Fracture and Phlebotomize being put behind IDC while we were still figuring shit out.

[QCrimson]

Only there wasn't a stupid "Did the boss turn, forcing me to try my positional again?"

You hate missing your positionals because of boss movements, I get that, but the fact is playing DRG before 2.45 was far more difficult. When you know an encounter the movements in question are predictable and you can adapt to them by learning its patterns (even Melusine's sudden turn arounds). Having a perfect run under those conditions feels really rewarding, moreso than it felt after 2.45. That's how I felt at least.

[Tilgung]

Did you just stop trying as hard to land all of them? All I got from the change was less irritation, still felt really rewarding when I got a perfect run.

[QCrimson]

Did you just stop trying as hard to land all of them?

Yeah, pretty much. There was no reason to be greedy with positionals anymore, like trying to fit a heavy thrust between two earth shakers or something like that. The difference wouldn't even show on a parse. :O
Don't get me wrong though, I was still getting on position when needed, but when there's no real risk it doesn't feel the same.

[SunnyHirose]

I'm alright with the present system, but I would also be alright with a rebalancing. Something feels off somewhere between trying to fit everything into one Heavy Thrust, the timings needed for BotD maintenance, the heavy clipping on Chaos Thrust, or the (unprecedented for a combo?) 100 potency for Fang/Wheeling out-of-position. I'm only saying that it combines into something strange; each one on their own is probably not a problem.

One perplexing element is the names of the buffs "Enhanced Wheeling Thrust" and "Sharper Fang and Claw" when this doesn't match the game's behavior--if you don't have the appropriate buff, you can't use either of these weaponskills (okay... I'm actually just waxing rhetorical here; I am aware that the status names and descriptions in the other languages' clients are accurate to the gameplay). I do like the implication that there could be a normal Wheeling Thrust or Fang and Claw, and that the proc could be a nice but not necessary reward (e.g. extending BotD only if the right step is used).

And right now, despite that I know it's balanced around Geirskogul and jumps, it feels like a real letdown to use Fang/Wheeling while going solo because they are so weak on their own. And yet I can't help but be annoyed when BotD is down and the fourth combo steps aren't even available....

Still, I'm glad overall that dragoon is a technically demanding job like I used to enjoy in 2.1-2.4 (but this time with high rewards that match the risks), and that the current design has the dangerous, chaotic feeling of the Azure Dragoon's stolen dragon magic that wasn't quite there before. And despite the frustrations, I'm finding the job as it's played at level 60 rather practical in a variety of solo and party-based settings.