Bard - they broke my job

[Arrik]

snip

The only time I mentioned NIN in regards to Foe's it wasn't comparing it to BLM. What I said was with the percent dps of NIN that would would be affected by Foe's, having a BLM and a NIN in party together still might not be enough to make it worth dropping the "doesn't stack with other songs" WM for Foe's, in addition to the 1 Caster scenario. It really wouldn't matter which Caster it was, if they are doing around 1k dps without Foe's you'd have to be lower than 666 dps for the increase from Foe's (without BV) to help them more than that version of WM would help the Bard. As for BV scenarios and multiple mages it would still work fine.

As for the locking us out of support, there's no reason for it. I've said it at least 3 times in this thread, and there is a whole thread dedicated to how us having more support than even some of the melees is a load of bs. So I don't don't really see the need to lock us out of support and/or make Foe's the exception just to please a bunch of melees. We're all DPS, we shouldn't have to jump through all these hoops to support when none of the others do, especially being punished twice for it. The mindset of us being a "support" dps needs to change, or we need a support role, that's been the core of my argument since the start.

I really do feel quite a few of us are on pretty much the same side in regard to needing changes, we just differ in exactly how it would be implemented. I personally like the no autoattack WM we have now (but I hate this version of BLM for other reasons), but I can see the reasons why people would want the playstyle adjusted back to how it was. My argument tends to center around the core of WM remaining the same simply because the last buff wasn't to Bard dps across the board, it was to the current WM. I even pointed out in my wall of text post that if WM is the new Bard playstyle it doesn't make a lot of sense to introduce it so late. And really, it makes even less sense to design a new job (MCH) and still make their playstyle change so much so late. I just feel the WM presented in previous posts is "here's the rule, but lets make this exception, and maybe that one" and I think we could do a less convoluted way of getting there.

And I absolutely agree Wide Volley being useless needs to change.

EDIT: And even though I like WM, I wouldn't be on the forums trying to get it back if they tore it out.

They should remove that annoying sound effect when casting skills with WM active.

I mentioned this earlier in a semi-offtopic post, but I'd like to see the animation changed to nocking an arrow and pulling back the bowstring, and the hiss removed.

[MrYaah]

The WM buff/EA+SW nerf translated to an about 50 dps increase for me with my likely subpar rotation. I didn't like WM when I first got it but by the time I hit 60 I accepted it and the dps was clearly higher so it was worth it to me. It does the change the rotation but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, its just something new and something we have to learn to play with and optimize.

For those of you bitching and moaning about WM just don't play with it on then. Outside of hardcore raid situations it won't matter if you have it or not. The only people that are really forced to learn and live with WM are the ones that will be doing hardcore raiding and looking to squeeze out every bit of dps from their class. With my own testing the dps difference between having WM and not having it on is about 100 dps.

The ppl who complain about about minuet's dps don't know what they're talking about and should be ignored. The problem with minuet has nothing to do with dps, its playability. It interferes with ogcds, bl in particular, in a really unsatisfactory way and sometimes you're forced to completely ignore the bl proc or fuck your rotation and it literally kills me inside.

[ChalupaBatman]

Sad truth is WM is here to stay, so might as well get used to it now.

If they removed WM they would have to make BRD's weaker than MCH to keep balance of being able to move while DPS'n which would probably make BRD the odd man out of raid groups since MCH has the same amount of utility and can push out more DPS.

It sucks but I do not see a way they can keep BRD's comparable to MCH if they remove WM unless they get an amazing new support utility to make up for their weak DPS output.

[yamochan]

well with the patch WM at least became somewhat playable im not saying that i like it but now its at least not completly bad. its finally respnsive as well it felt very clunky before and it gives us about 100 dps more than before.
so now lets see the bad things:
our playstyle is still not fixed as long as we still have cast times i will not stop complaining ^^
the dps is now around 1000 from the reddit posts, around 900 for the average bard (and thats considering standing heavy fights) so that brings us a bit closer to the rest but we are still the bottom of the table and since we are damage dealers thats not acceptable.

the conclusion is: bard is still pretty much useless but at least we can now go bismark without getting kicked hurray for boobys

[ChloeGrace]

our playstyle is still not fixed as long as we still have cast times i will not stop complaining

Agree 100%. Bring back the play style we had for the first 2 years and 50 levels. I'm fine with gating the new abilities behind WM, just get rid of casting times.

[StrejdaTom]

I will quote my reply to another thread because I believe it fits in here too. It is just my opinion on the new BRD, even after the "fix".

I find it funny that everyone uses the same crap argument about mobility. What if I told you that not every BRD used to run all around the place, but loved the mobility because of fights like Ravana EX, Titan EX or T13. Also I loved to do bluefire in T12, because I could. Same goes for kiting Renauds in T7 etc. You think I will bother to do anything like that anymore? Think again..

BRD always was the mobile class that supported people, did moving mechanics and had the lowest DPS for me. Now the lowest DPS is just plain unbalanced sh*t.
Not talking about the reality that in fights like Ravana EX I still do much more DPS without WM turned at all compared to BRDs who turn it on just for non-movement phases. Seems like the 30% buff with potency nerf of some skills and still no ability to weave off GCD skills like a boss was really a nice fix for BRD.

[Argentt]

well with the patch WM at least became somewhat playable im not saying that i like it but now its at least not completly bad. its finally respnsive as well it felt very clunky before and it gives us about 100 dps more than before.

Bard with WM up is no less clunky than it was before patch. Weaving in off-gcds still doesn't flow very well, especially when using Straight/Straighter Shot. At least the MCH was built from the ground up designed around their barrel stances. WM was plainly just bolted on to keep Bard equivalent to MCH with very little consideration of the way the abilities flow and the frequency of off-gcds.

[Boss_Koivula]

It interferes with ogcds, bl in particular, in a really unsatisfactory way and sometimes you're forced to completely ignore the bl proc or fuck your rotation and it literally kills me inside.

Well said. I'm just gonna try to live on with it and hope one day we get our old playstyle back. At the moment I will be forced to run as a bard when Alex Savage comes, but I cant wait for the time we dont need a BRD anymore so I can switch to DRG. Playing with WM feels so clunky and I have always hated casters, so this situtation is anything but enjoyable right now.

On that note I would like to see a new thread for Bards where we could focus on theorycrafting instead on these pointless debates which keep going round and round.

[Aiselia]

So I was thinking about how Dragoons got BotD and BLMs got Enochian and how those work, and I was thinking...

Why couldn't WM work like that?

Lasts X seconds, increases damage, doesn't put cast times on abilities.
BUT
Empy increases duration of WM and has a 2.5 sec cast time, still requiring you to stop moving at least for that.

While we're at it, you could then gate Sidewinder behind WM, have it take off WM duration like Geirskogul, increase damage to balance.

Doesn't completely reverse how Bards played for 51 levels. It only expands on what they already did by giving you something extra to maintain to up your damage.

[Kayote]

The ppl who complain about about minuet's dps don't know what they're talking about and should be ignored. The problem with minuet has nothing to do with dps, its playability. It interferes with ogcds, bl in particular, in a really unsatisfactory way and sometimes you're forced to completely ignore the bl proc or fuck your rotation and it literally kills me inside.

Is it really as bad though? I dont really get it, maybe im missing something. I can still weave BL in there and cast it in the middle of the animation lock that comes AFTER the cast bar. Unlike BLMs, BRD's cant queue casts back to back, we have to wait for the animation to finish playing before we can start casting the next one, which I hate! BUT it is a small window where im throwing in the oGCD stuff like BL, SS+, and other buffs or even move a little inbetween if needed. Its not really much of a delay, if any, I dont think. Other than the actual cast times being added inbetween.