Expansion is only temporarily enjoyable. Fails to fix all main flaws.

[Kona_Nightwind]

Opinions and made up numbers.

So what you are saying is there isn't one, all the games you describe crashed and burned or had very small player bases. Sound like a good business plan, SE should get right on it.

The franchise name is not carrying the game, just go see FFXIV pre 2.0. FYI casuals pay the bills not hardcore players. That 5% of content is for 5% of the player base. I also can make up numbers to support my opinion. I love the internet.

[MageBlack]

So what you are saying is there isn't one, all the games you describe crashed and burned or had very small player bases. Sound like a good business plan, SE should get right on it.

The franchise name is not carrying the game, just go see FFXIV pre 2.0. FYI casuals pay the bills not hardcore players. That 5% of content is for 5% of the player base. I also can make up numbers to support my opinion. I love the internet.

Excellent points, I would only like to add FFXI as an example. while it didnt go F2P it was geared way more towards the hardcore yet only achieved 500k subs at its peak (to the best of my knowledge, i could be off on the numbers.) and it was an FF title.

Like i mentioned on the page before, People are coming to a burger joint and complaining they cant get a steak and lobster dinner with a baked potato. Best you are gunna get is a steak burger with a side of fries.

[Lucidbro]

So what you are saying is there isn't one, all the games you describe crashed and burned or had very small player bases. Sound like a good business plan, SE should get right on it.

Just what sort of logic are you using here? First of all, no Guild Wars at least was very successful, I haven't followed the others but as far as MMO's go, they certainly hold an above average player base.
Second, are you really so simple as to claim that the success/failure of an MMO, directly correlates with the difficulty of it's content or the complexity of characters builds? As if there is nothing else in existence that has to do with MMO popularity, say like production values, world design, combat or just the general difficulty of making a game within the MMORPG landscape?

In case you've forgotten WoW, back when it was a lot more popular had very hard raids and detailed talent trees and no one complained. If we are to use this sort of ridiculous logic we can actually just say that as the decline in the WoW player base was due to the increasing simplification of content, the timing coincides perfectly with the end of Lich King where the trend started.

[Kona_Nightwind]

Angry WoW forum post.

First I never said Guild Wars wasn't successful (relative), I referred to it as having a small player base (relative). Second I have no idea where you got any of that from what I've said. Try reading everything I've typed and what I'm responding to. I never referenced difficulty once, I did however refer to the amount of content that SE put out. I'm basing success on money plain and simple. When did WoW players not complain about WoW, I think never. I left WoW because of he crap community, what I'm worried about is FFXIV community turning into that. Posts like yours just reinforce those fears.

[Lucidbro]

snip

Actually I suggest you read what you typed and more importantly what you responded to.
"So what you are saying is there isn't one, all the games you describe crashed and burned or had very small player bases. Sound like a good business plan, SE should get right on it." - your words. This is entirely incorrect. You can go play any of these games right now if you want to. They are currently among some of the most popular MMORPG games out there.
You are suggesting that it's erroneous to follow successful mechanics because the game itself in your (incorrect) opinion has crashed and burned.

There has never been a time WoW players didn't complain about something, but hard raids never used to be one of those things. Complaining in general happened in a much lesser volume than it does now.

Actually the downward spiral in WoW came from stupid design decisions and a year of gap between content patches...twice (going on three times now). Nice try at cherry picking though.

BC/Wrath were popular because it was the only game of its kind back in the day. Not because "raids were hard". There were no instanced raids even remotely close to what WoW did. We played it because there was nothing else like it.

Hey, nice cherry picking, though. I wonder what those stupid design decisions were, must not have been the simplification of content. You know it's very easy playing this game but what's tragic is that you completely missed the point. I'll just leave this post as it is, I'll help you figure it out if you don't get it after re-reading.

[lagata]

Ok. So, my experience with mmos goes all the way back to the original EQ days. EQ bored me to death. It's battle system was so slow. I played WoW as a mage during the burning crusade era. I agree that it was fun trying to form my own type of mage. I decided to be a frost/fire mage. I had a blast! ...until I had to raid. I was told that my super fun build that got me to lvl cap just wasn't cutting it and I had to build it their way. On top of that, I was forced to do raid A to get gear for raid B to get gear for PvP to get gear for Raid C. Needless to say...I quit that game very quickly and never looked back.

[lagata]

Also:

This game allows me to play at my own pace, to get through content with a FUN difficulty and not an annoying one. The mechanics they come up with are amazing and I don't mind farming the fights to learn them. I agree that gear becomes obsolete when new content comes out and that gets really annoying but the fights being FUN is what is important. As others have said; if it isn't fun or challenging to you, then maybe this isn't your game. For me, I like the idea of breaking the Holy trinity of heal/tank/dps and going for more of a ff tactics route where you go in with a party of 8 you want and hope for the best but in order to do that, they need more jobs with variety.

Maybe you should play ESO. I don't know about content but I know you can build your character any way you want