Bard - they broke my job

[Empty-handed]

This is a huge improvement. Minuet is actually useable now.

Once u learn the fights you can easily anticipate movement heavy phase of the fight. Turn it off. Move while maintaining up time. Then on again.

If I have it ready I turn it off pop 2 buffs (like before) then turn it on and iron jaw refresh my dots.... The play style is very dynamic now. It kinda resolve the issue of "I have so many buffs lined up" ... Off minuet pop ur buffs between heavyshots. Then turn it on again in an instant.

Edit for auto spell zzzz

[Snugglebutt]

It is better, specifically the instant stance change instead of prolonged casting of WM but without accurate parser data and a good sample size it is hard to tell how much of an improvement. It certainly does not feel like it is completely fixed the problems with other class comparative DPS scaling yet...plus the people who do not like the fact it plays just like a BLM minus the very good DPS have a valid reason to not like the changes since if they wanted to play like a BLM they would of done so from the offset. One thing for sure is you are certainly punished for not having it WM on and it seems SE wants you to keep it on even if avoiding AoE's because the trade off of losing out on a single casting timer on one skill might not seem worth losing the +30 buff for for that brief period of time your moving +15 second CD.

Personally I 'tolerate' WM and cast times on skills but make no mistake it is not more fun because of it and if anything it is less fun, once have some decent parser data and decent size sample pool if the DPS output has not been improved enough from what it was prior to these latest changes then I may too drop the class in favor of playing another. At the moment I enjoy the class less with these changes but it's tolerable, I do however lack sufficient evidence to decide whether SE have ruined it completely for me personally in terms of DPS parser information with big enough sample size to determine if is issue with just myself, just some people or if it is continued problems related to the class design itself for all.

[Edellis]

Why is it almost every single time I see someone making snarky comments about bards in threads like these, a quick glance to the side shows they are not a bard...how easy it is to be snarky when it is not their class with the design and implementation issues being talked about yet if shoe was on the other foot they would not be happy about people taking pot shots at their class when they have issues with their own.

Yeah! It's not like you can, you know, change classes with a button or anything

I'm sure they'll change Bards around. I don't play that job personally so I have no idea what I,m saying but Wanderer's Minuet sounds like a 180 degree playstyle shift.

In the meantime~

See, this lv60 thurmaturge has got the right idea!

Silly fake bards who like being casters now with all their MP management and rotations and GCD-length cast times and terrible mobility and super sacrificial mechanics that punish them when they screw up

yeah that sounds just like how bard is now, i sure wish square would stop 180ing my class around

its almost like i have to git gud or something, haha silly square, as if

[MercureXI]

Why is it almost every single time I see someone making snarky comments about bards in threads like these, a quick glance to the side shows they are not a bard...how easy it is to be snarky when it is not their class with the design and implementation issues being talked about yet if shoe was on the other foot they would not be happy about people taking pot shots at their class when they have issues with their own.

Oh boy, I played WAR in 2.0, which is nowhere close to the state BRD is at the moment, and never whined about it once.

I was confident that SE would see that the job needed improvements, just like I knew SE would adjust WM so that its purpose and overall utilisation becomes clearer / easier to use as a stance.

And they did today.

[MercureXI]

You don't like being forced to "freeze" to ensure your maximum dps output. I can understand that. But let's be honest, all jobs have "their own burden" : melee need positioning (rear/side) that is trouble on some fights, mages have a cast time that requires no movement for a period of time (on AoE heavy fights, it's a pain).

Bard had no trouble at all; only Bard. And they had / have a secured spot as being the only support job, bringing unique mp/tp regen and more magic damage (before MCH appeared).

Now, you can still dps "on the go", but if you want to optimize your damage, you have your "own" problem to deal with, which is fair in my opinion.

[MercureXI]

You can still move and dps on the go.

But you won't be at max dps if you do so the whole fight ... which is fair if you look at the other dps jobs.

You just have been spoiled for more than a year, and now it's hard to get back with the other dps in the "you need skill to dps correctly" department.

But once you've mastered this new stance, I think you'll be proud and happy that you can now show some skills and deal serious damage over "random bards".

[Panasync]

You don't like being forced to "freeze" to ensure your maximum dps output. I can understand that. But let's be honest, all jobs have "their own burden" : melee need positioning (rear/side) that is trouble on some fights, mages have a cast time that requires no movement for a period of time (on AoE heavy fights, it's a pain).

Bard had no trouble at all; only Bard. And they had / have a secured spot as being the only support job, bringing unique mp/tp regen and more magic damage (before MCH appeared).

Now, you can still dps "on the go", but if you want to optimize your damage, you have your "own" problem to deal with, which is fair in my opinion.

Bard is not a support job. Healers can do DPS with DPS abilities, are they no longer healers because of this? Until there is a support slot, BRD is not a support. This game has a trinity, and support isn't part of it, which is why almost every single job has support abilities, not just BRD. BRD is however the only job that gets a penalty for using its support abilities.

[Arrik]

Bard is not a support job. Healers can do DPS with DPS abilities, are they no longer healers because of this? Until there is a support slot, BRD is not a support. This game has a trinity, and support isn't part of it, which is why almost every single job has support abilities, not just BRD. BRD is however the only job that gets a penalty for using its support abilities.

This.

As for the update, it is a start. But SE really needs to take a good long look at what this job is supposed to be. If the really want us so far behind other dps while being penalized for our support even farther, they need to give us a role for it. If they want us to be dps first, support second like every other dps in the game, they need to treat us like it and fix WD scaling and other factors that leave our dps so low.

Edit: This is also why I'm very much against a "Hybrid" role.

[Noira]

Bard is a support dps. You may not queue as a support job....but we are support. I mean for FFS, we have Wardern's Paeon, Foe's Requiem, Mage's Ballad and Army Paeon, each of those are game changers. Most of the other dps classes "support" buff themselves on top of the party, the only exclusion is ninja goad. What other class has a prevention esuna ?

Healer comparison doesn't work, we healers have those abilities to help us solo dps (fact: you can't heal things to death this isn't levi ex), if we use them in dungeon it's a bonus we don't have to.

Se themselves have said Bard is a support dps type.

Before anyone checks my lodestone I have level a 57 Bard. I know the class and have raided with it and plan to go to level 60 with it.

[Panasync]

Bard is a support dps. You may not queue as a support job....but we are support. I mean for FFS, we have Wardern's Paeon, Foe's Requiem, Mage's Ballad and Army Paeon, each of those are game changers. Most of the other dps classes "support"...

No, we are not a support. Where in the trinity that SE says this game is defined by is the support or hybrid support DPS? Show me where, otherwise you have nothing. The healer comparison does work, Cleric+DPS spells could easily be a solo or small party only thing, they're not, they were not designed to be simply for solo situations. If that was the case I'm sure they would have been tweaked once healers were expected to start doing DPS. They've only been given more tools to do so.