memorial service for MCH

[Edellis]

I've watched my damage go from "meh" to "why am i so weak" to "wow this feels pretty good now" over the course of lv52-60 and then endgame on BRD. I don't know about MCH, but if they're anything like BRD then they probably scale statwise in a way that slowly lets them catch up from what previously felt like just lacking DPS.

All the stats in 3.0 actually support them scaling this way which very slowly softens the AA nerf on the stances (DET now affecting Weaponskills WAY than AA, SS now affecting DoTs), which, considering they have access to the best food/potion/gear in their parses, could explain why Square isn't seeing the issue with MCH/BRD damage right now.

No, you are never going to to outdamage melee anytime soon, but FFS people, it isn't the end of the world. For every person whining and crying about MCH/BRD DPS, there's another static (that doesn't suck) using them with full content clears.


Quit theorycrafting, find a party of players who aren't salty bandwagon princesses, and get your clears. And find someone with a parser so you can just draw your own conclusions

[Sevyn]

Hmmm, reading everyone's comments is pretty painful. Yes this job does need a slight buff but not nearly as much as everyone is saying. I'm i177 with my Machinist with Ravana weapon (have cleared Ravana Ex like 26 times with my FC). I can tell you from raiding with skilled players that Machinist is not as far behind as everyone says. While I don't beat anyone who plays on the same skill level as me I am generally within 100-150 dps of the jobs and that's just on Ravana Ex. For everyone saying we have no purpose we do... It's just the same as Bards pretty much which I don't mind and was pretty much a no brainer from the start that It would be. I can pretty much bet that a lot of our utility will be put into play in Alexander/Alexander Savage. Mostly I just see people complain about 1,1,1,1,1,1 spamming but that is hardly ever the case unless I'm the luckiest machinist on earth (doubtful) so please stop over-exaggerating guys. I do agree our stance sucks ass right now and hopefully they fix that but yeah, any competent machinist (saw some machinist on a stream pulling 900 on Ravana Extreme fight) can keep up. So why don't you guys actually gear up, learn the job, and do the higher content available. We will get to see how machinist performs in Alexander tomorrow and If they get blown away by other dps than I'm sure we will get a buff (and hopefully they fix gauss barrel).

[RiceisNice]

..

The problem is that the damage increase is incredibly small in ideal situations. I've done it a couple of times and at best the damage difference was around 3% (and I had overall more crits in favor of GB) That means blanks on cooldown. Slide casting won't help with actually dodging most boss AoEs; you're just moving for the sake of moving.

Once you're unable to use blanks on cooldown or missing a GCD from moving, I'd wager thats a damage loss right there. It's busting your ass for little payoff.

...

You're 150 dps behind for really no good reason though. And while I do have the benefit of going into 3.0 with a static from FCoB, it doesn't change the fact that I'm naturally doing less damage than other dps for no reason, and people will give me a hard time for it (because I needed someone within a farn party to vouch them to open up an MCH slot >_>). Not to mention that Ravana parses are the worse thing to look at for raw numbers because of liberation phases and people throwing out (un)merged parses.

MCH isn't low enough that it shouldn't be excluded, but I wouldn't say that people are exaggerating when MCH numbers are lower than it should be relatively.

[Sevyn]

...

Agreed, right now it does look like we do less for no good reason because none of our utility is really necessary for that fight. If our "utility" is still useless in Alexander normal/savage AND we still do quite a bit less then they better buff our job. Until then though we shouldn't overreact and see what happens.

[RiceisNice]

Agreed, right now it does look like we do less for no good reason because none of our utility is really necessary for that fight. If our "utility" is still useless in Alexander normal/savage AND we still do quite a bit less then they better buff our job. Until then though we shouldn't overreact and see what happens.

The other end of the spectrum is that MCH's tp/mp regen is arguably worse than bard's when it comes to emergencies, on top of being on the lower end of the damage spectrum compared to a bard. Hypercharge is one of our DPS cooldowns; if we hold it off for emergency regen like battle voice, its a damage loss for every second that we do hold it. On the other hand, machinist is good at keeping people at optimal levels when there's sufficent downtime, but how much that'll help is varied.

In the end, I'd still wish they'd at least address whats wrong with GB and the very minuscule payoff (if there is one) we get out of it

[Massterchef]

(saw some machinist on a stream pulling 900 on Ravana Extreme fight)

Pretty sure that was merged. Actual DPS was probably alot lower.

[Griffeth]

THIS.

I'm not giving up on a class I enjoy.

Seconded! The class is fun to me, going to ride out the storm and if/when we get buffed I will know my class better than the FoTM wave that comes back.

[Edellis]

You're 150 dps behind for really no good reason though.

If you've got any casters (you do) in your party (or a Ninja, or a WHM who can DPS, or any healer who knows how to dot ), and you give them all access to a 5~10% or 10~20% damage buff for free, is that really a "for nothing" situation?

I realize this is more a bard thing, but i don't get why people always exclude that

Of course this doesn't apply (as in they dont do support DPS) to ninja's trick attack + goad which is arguable more powerful because?

Or summoners res and super virus allowing your healers to DPS more?

Or crit buff of Dragoon and Piercing up?

Because DPS-oriented skills for a DPS-oriented class that provide more DPS to the raid at no cost to their own DPS is not a support skill, it's a DPS skill. And it doesn't make them a support class. It makes them a DPS that does DPS. DPS DPS and more DPS.

Bard does not and never has functioned like this, 4/5 of your job skills from lv 30-50 not only added NOTHING to your own DPS, but reduced it while active. It's primary and only effective use is boosting your teammates.

Hell until 3.0, Rain of Death was even a support skill. It was ONE HUNDRED percent useless to use for DPS purposes EVER unless you had someone under the accuracy cap. And if you used this for QN procs, you were AoEing wrong, because that sucked. It was intentionally weaker than QN and WV because of this.

This is a terrible argument, people should stop using it because it sounds silly.

But maybe i'm wrong, hey look the ninja Goad'd me inbetween his barrage of weaponskills with 0 detriment to his DPS at all GUESS HES SUPPORT NOW

[RiceisNice]

Well the person I was replying to was a machinist, so no foe requiem. And 5% honestly is not that much. Considering the up time, that amounts to maybe 1% damage increase. Using bishop to amplify magic damage by 5% is at the cost of rook turret's potency; It'd be better for you to use rook anyway to amplify your own damage if its aligning with your cooldowns (which is only every other time) Not to mention ninja has a 10% one that's applied to both damage types, has a lower cooldown and does more damage than us anyway.

I'll agree that bards are at a better standing than machinist as far as what they can bring to the table is concerned, though they still have their own gameplay problems with how WM affects it (bloodletter resets and straighter shot procs for one)

[Ryaz]

Seconded! The class is fun to me, going to ride out the storm and if/when we get buffed I will know my class better than the FoTM wave that comes back.

I agree. I actually got a boost of confidence today when we tried (and failed) at Bismarck Ex and it actually wasn't my fault. I was solo dps on one snake for two phases and got him down 1/2 way while the others three couldn't even kill one. Of course, that could have just meant they were all sub-par dps, but I'm trying to look on the brighter side.