A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Elim]

LET THIS BE A LESSON for future patches.

To be honest, I think they did learn their lesson even if they haven't done anything about 2.x. Either that or they came to their senses. 3.0 main story is 100% better than 2.x. I loathed every single story patch in 2.x because 99.999999%(I'm exaggerating a little but...) of every story patch were fetch quests that made me want to claw my eyes out from a mix of frustration and boredom. They have also made leaps and bounds when it's come to dialog in 3.0. I do feel bad for anyone who has to suffer through 2.0, but not because it's a lot of story. Because IMO it was bad story. Sorry SE. I don't mean to be a jerk but it's simply my opinion. I wouldn't be against them trimming out the hundreds and hundreds of run around quests to simply make 2.x less painful.

[TessaJalloh]

My last response to this thread A video of me

https://youtu.be/0bLYc4BwmjA

i watched your video response... i commented on your video response.

You just suck AAAALL the joy out of everything don't you?

[Luvbunny]

Both MSQ for 2.0 and 3.0 are good, they are what every new players need, to move them along to all the areas, giving them reasons to explore and getting rewarded, and giving them free xp to level up. It has some fetch quests, but all in all, they are bearable. THE WORST offender is the 2.1-2.55 patches story, they are just garbage. If you look at how the patches story is structured, they can easily move 40% of the filler trash activities as side quests that gives you good reward BUT completely optional - I think this is the BIGGEST request from this thread. Just take those fetch quests, make them as "optional" - keep the core MSQ on the patch. Obviously if you don't do any of the now optional quests, you miss out half the content. But some players here do not give a rat ass, so let them plow through the meaty "more focused" MSQ, and let the rest of us who want story driven do the optional quest.

Let's see how they treat 3.1 patches, if it is 5 core MSQ with 25-30 beyond redemption fetch quest of "talk to npc, click on objects, kill 3 mobs, go to point A, B, C, the whole alphabet, for one measly sentence" - then "Houston we have a big problem". But if they learned their lesson and separate the two, MUST BE completed main quests, with only no more than 10, each has difficult challenge and long ass spectacular CS, then by all means, do this. Give everyone what they want. The CS skipper can skip 10 CS, but must overcome the challenge. People who want challenge now have 10 ordeal to overcome. The Cathy Casuals unfortunately will be stuck cannot progress because they can't overcome the trials (until they develop reading skills on how to beat it). The Lore hunter can do more of those separate completely optional fetch quests. Most people will be happy, except those who cannot read.

[QiLymePye]

No you didn't or you'd have realized that this thread was garbage to post in, being on the third page. There are more votes agreeing this thread topic is just trolling than there are thinking it's an issue. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3104927 = 88 to this thread's 74.

Because the MCH and AST jobs are fetch quests, just like all level 30 jobs are. You don't join a guild to get a storyline from level 1-30 as the skills are unlocked. You get them all right away. If they don't lock them behind Ishgard, that means players will just level one character to 30 and then get these 3 bonus jobs for free and never consider the other jobs at all. They're are a reward for completing the 2.x storylines.

See, I don't count "how many agree or disagree" and other stuff like that in a post. Those are just opinions, just like this is my opinion. Now to the 2nd paragraph I quoted of you, you just confirmed what I've been saying all along, which is a bad business model for SE. This "expansion" should not be a reward only for players who completed 2.x story lines. Why advertise expansion, bundle expansion with original game, gloat about all the nice things you can do in Heavensward, but then say its only available as a rewards to those who finished story? What about new players? And even if SE wanted to do that, thats not really the main issue. The main issue is that to finish the main story takes a ridiculous amount of time due to the insane amount of filler quest. I'm having a hard time understanding people that are saying to the newbies and to returning players that they have to go through all of the hurdles just to touch an expansion which they paid at least 39.99 for. If SE wanted this to be just a reward to veteran players, then market it as such. But they didn't. Why? Because they would not have sold as many expansions and subs. They made it seem like you could access some of these features in the expansion from the start.

Now before someone chimes in "its been said all over this forum and other websites", once again, the problem is that it was marketed towards new and returning players just as much as current players. New players can't even access this forum. Players that haven't logged into FFXIV in 2 weeks, with or without a sub, can't access this forum. It was a sneaky attempt by SE to get more subs and sell more copies. Hell, the box it comes in doesn't even specify what you are getting into just based on the "wording" they used. The only thing accessible at the start from purchasing Heavensward is the Au Ra race. WTF? If you had not even started playing this game and knew you had to complete almost 2yrs worth of story just to access the expansion, would you have bought the expansion at release? Or would you have waited? Thats my gripe with SE. We need this game to be successful, but this tactic by SE will chase most of the people they were trying to get in the long run.

[nuyu11]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...cent-interview

Some part of the article:

As we know, to play Heavensward's content, one must complete A Realm Reborn's main story questline through Patch 2.55. ARR has been adjusted so that new players will gain double the experience points in the main story, making side quests not needed quite as much, and the Duty Finder prioritizes new players in the queue. The option to remove item and level sync in dungeons was also introduced to help new players, so that dungeons could be completed without an entire party.

Item rewards in ARR content also offer better gear. For example, quest rewards that were item level 55 before, can now offer ilevel 90. And by completing the Chronicles of a New Era quests from patches 2.1-2.55, players can easily get a full set of gear that's item level 110.

[QiLymePye]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...cent-interview

Some part of the article:

As we know, to play Heavensward's content, one must complete A Realm Reborn's main story questline through Patch 2.55. ARR has been adjusted so that new players will gain double the experience points in the main story, making side quests not needed quite as much, and the Duty Finder prioritizes new players in the queue. The option to remove item and level sync in dungeons was also introduced to help new players, so that dungeons could be completed without an entire party.

Item rewards in ARR content also offer better gear. For example, quest rewards that were item level 55 before, can now offer ilevel 90. And by completing the Chronicles of a New Era quests from patches 2.1-2.55, players can easily get a full set of gear that's item level 110.

See, still not understanding the problem.

#1 you posted a link to another thread in this forum, which players that haven't played before are not even going to know exist. Hell, the people that even visit this forum make up for a very tiny percentage of total players. When I buy a new game, I don't visit forums of the game I've never played before to make sure what I'm buying is what they say they are selling me. I look at the damn box and read the game description and requirements on it.

#2 The leveling is not the problem, its the number of quests and number of filler quests that is the problem. It doesn't matter if you reach endgame at lvl 45 or itemlvl 110, you still are forced to do quest that don't even have anything to do with the gear you are even wearing. Why would I care if I am receiving IL110 gear if I'm just spending 10-15 min just going from place to place talking to NPC's and making oatmeal and collecting seeds, etc. Those are the quest they could get rid of, especially if they contribute very little to nothing to the main story. A lot of these quest are like prepositional phrases. If you can remove them and still get across the main story without said quests, then its just filler.

So, recapping: The problem IS NOT making new players go through the story. The problem is making them go through all of the filler stuff that was added up until Heavensward's release, in which said filler quest were added just to stretch out game for players playing then when endgame was limited. All while only rewarding current players for buying an expansion, which alienates players. SE could have compromised by at least making 1 of the new jobs accessible out the gate. Who cares if some people will only lvl a class to 30 to access new jobs, Isn't that what we have been doing since this game came out? I recall only lvling my pug at one point to 15 just so I can unlock BRD. That argument is stupid. All of us have done that.

[elemental10]

I, for one, rather enjoyed the 2.x stories. I mean, if all of them would be voiced someday, including important dialogs, I would seriously redo all of them again at a comfortable pace.

If FFXIV is a book, the stories will always be intertwined with mentions of details and lores while maintaining a good grip of the story, with well-written dialogs and scenes.

Around the lines of,

"The adventurer emerged from the deck of the ship, his face frowned from the bright rays of the evening sun. Sea breeze caught in his nose, brings about a thousand smells that he has never known before. There were chatterings beyond the gate, a couple of paces away. As he stepped out, his eyes adjusted to the light, and a white spire towering above him made him gawk. Limsa Lominsa was more than he could've imagined with walls of white, the sea breezes and the constant crushing of the waves on stones. The adventurer breathed deeply.

'First time here in Limsa, I'm sure?' a merchant, clothed in yellow with a merry face stepped beside him. He looked up at the tall towers. 'Never once am I bored with looking up at those. But the road awaits and the market bustles.'

The merchant pulled something out from one of his pockets and handed it to the adventurer.

'A little something for saving my life back there. Don't bother sayin' no. Eh, to be sure, if you do want to give something back, be something of a great persona around these parts and then I can brag about meeting you!' he laughed loudly.

The adventurer smiled as he accepted the ring. It was old but the shine was still there.

'Well then... see you in a few,' the merchant was gone in a throng of bustling people.

As the adventurer walked out of the gate and into the main hallways, a Roegadyn caught his eye. He was wearing a yellow jacket over tight pants and a mighty axe on his back. His skin of sea blue and eyes as sharp as the hawk, his build of a body is what makes the Roegadyn a suited match for guards and fighters alike. This one saw the adventurer eyeing him up and down. He called out to him.

'New one, eh? I see you're an adventurer, fresh from the ship. Well as a welcoming gesture here, let me offer you some advice around these parts, eh? You could do worse than attuning to the aetheryte and speakin' to the old man up at the tavern. Might as well go to the Marauder's guild to see what they've got for you too,' he said.

The adventurer smiled as his adventure has just begun on such high notes."

Sorry. Got a little carried away. But part of the reason I enjoyed the stories is because they're stories to be told. And I like them.

For the reasoning behind filler quests, I would just do them. I mean, it just takes a couple of seconds anyway. It isn't that big of a deal.

[KisaiTenshi]

See, I don't count "how many agree or disagree" and other stuff like that in a post.

But the OP is, so it's relevant.

Every additional person who chimes in will help SE to understand that they really ought to fix this.

So it's now currently 109 who think this topic is a troll topic, to the 74 in this thread who think it's an issue.

I've only replied to this thread after someone has bumped it. That means people are specifically seeking it out to bump it and continue a fight they're not winning.

More people want to keep the MSQ intact than edit it or make it optional. Some people are more inclined to have some of MSQ reduced, but almost nobody suggests what. I've been suggesting speeding up the 1-15 quests, because the game doesn't feel like it even started until that point. That's also because in V1.0 I quit playing before I got to that point, because V1.0 DID NOT give you a direction which to go. I'm someone who picks up ALL the damn quests in an area, does them, and then turns them in all at once. I was doing that in V1.0 and pretty much I got as far around this point:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/L...XIV_Storylines

The adventurer, accompanied by the Miqo'te F'lhaminn, reaches Camp Black Brush where they find a wounded girl named Ascilia. Thancred appears and says he was the one who led Ascilia to the camp, as she was seeking out an enemy of her father. Corguevais approaches and tries to aid her, but she retaliates and accuses him of allowing the Goobbue to escape in town, gravely injuring her father.

Back in town, the adventurer visits the Alchemist's guild where Ascilia's father, Warburton, was being treated before passing away. Corguevais speaks with the girl once again, and she says that her father came to Ul'dah to warn everyone of a terrible danger.

After that point, I just recall aimlessly running around Camp Black Brush and not seeing quest markers. As the combat in the game was already irritating enough, and there were other games I wanted to try, I left.

If you notice, that was barely half way into the starter quests, and no dungeons had been unlocked. I liked the storyline, but it involved "get to level 12" or something and nothing was rewarding gear to get there. Both of those things are fixed in V2.0, as the MSQ rewards enough gear to get through the storyline, and the optional quests reward the other pieces.


So I'm telling you, from experience in V1.0, that nerfing or making the MSQ optional, will make it WORSE and people quit from believing that's all there is in the game is fetch quests. There ways of speeding it up without doing either (eg doubling of experience, and making some of the "go to X and talk to Y" quests simply "Go to X and attune to the Aethereyte", making "talk to Y" into an optional quest. If the player already attuned to the Aethereyte, then the MSQ quest can be immediately resumed.

Now to reflect on why I quit V2.0 a month after launch and came back at the beginning of this year...


V2.0 I paid for one month so I could complete the entire storyline. That was EXACTLY how far I got in one month. Once I finished the storyline I was presented with "oh now I got to do everything all over again in Hard mode? eh.... no, some other time" , keep in mind I started with a DPS character and there was no Roulette yet. So I was waiting literately hours to to do dungeons. I felt at that point in the game, the options were do crafting stuff, or watch netflix waiting for a queue pop. That felt like a waste of money, and there were other games I had been invited to try.

So yes, presenting 2.1-2.55 as "Now you gotta do hard mode" was definitely the wrong thing to do.

And in general, every other game was so in love with their damn cash shop that it was cheaper to play FFXIV than it is to play ANY of the other MMORPG's

[nuyu11]

Why don't you just tell us that you're lazy and want easy reward.
And we can make few another request also, like remove the raid and request SE to drop a gear from the sky.

[QiLymePye]

But the OP is, so it's relevant.

So it's now currently 109 who think this topic is a troll topic, to the 74 in this thread who think it's an issue.

Ok. I can use numbers too. lets use your numbers from above. Out of those 183 people that commented or liked or voted or whatever, 74 (40%) say its a problem. Now....If i am selling any product or im doing almost anything where 40% is negative or bad, Im getting ready to make some changes. Just saying...

Also, Im not the lazy one nuyu. Yes I only joined this forum back in 2014, but ive been playing this game since couple months after ARR launched. I am one of the veteran players. No body is asking for free raid gear, even though SE has decided to give free gear to newbies finishing main story and extra exp. My stance was the amount of time it takes to get to Heavensward if you are just starting today. And most people that are complaining about making it to Heavensward are complaining because all the flashy stuff advertised for the expansion is locked behind it. They didn't advertise "The storyline" as much as they advertised the jobs, the flying mounts, etc. You people make it seem like if they didn't gate the jobs behind the expansion, the story was gonna fold and FFXIV was going to go down the toilet. Get real. If the people were able to use the new jobs out the gate, they still would have been able to experience the story. Explain to me how having the MCH or AST jobs available outside of Heavensward detracts and destroys not only the main story, but Heavensward story as well? If I'm not mistaken, you can experience the story with any job. Its not like playing through the original main story with a MCH was going to spoil the story at all. It was SE choice to do it, but what I'm saying is that they didn't do it for story. It was a business move, nothing more, nothing less..and it might backfire.