When would you take DRK over PLD or WAR?

[Tila]

I've been trying to find an answer to this. Simply put, if you had two people, both have all three tanks at 60 with equal gear. You know they're both good players. For what reasons would you want a setup other than PLD MT and WAR OT? What is it that DRK brings that would make you want it over either of the other two?

[Daega]

Not much really. DRK has no utility. WAR can burst damage and heal. WAR takes hits roughly the same as DRK but with the Defiance hp boost it is sturdier. DRK has TP/MP issues as well. PLD is the king of tanks due to defense/cooldowns/utility like cover, sheltron, and clemency? the heal, and still can do decent dps.
Right now there's not and high end game content until Alex and then it'll become apparent how much DRK needs love.

This is coming from a 60 DRK who has seen all content to now. When you're in a grp with a PLD or WAR you can see the difference.

[stoxastic]

Only time when DRK can be better than PLD as MT is when boss damage is pretty much all magic, Ramuh Ex for example. If there is no physical damage, PLD Blocking, Bulwark, and Sheltron are rendered useless. In this case it might be better to bring DRK.

DRK/WAR can be good in non-mnk comps against a raid boss that uses only magical tank busters.

[Ipkonfig]

Storm's Path + Reprisal since they stack is a pretty nice reason to DRK MT/WAR OT. If you don't have a MNK in a fight that has magical mechanics, Ravana Ex has a few. There was a poll thread on Reddit where healers rated which tanks they like healing the most, obviously PLD got first, but DRK actually came in second. Most comments sited that so many Warriors try and spend all their time in Deliverance and take gobs of damage making healing tougher. I personally do stance dance, but only if I know I'm not gonna take big hits.

For a WAR to keep up with a DRKs mitigation they need to use Inner Beast for every 5 stacks instead of Fel Cleave, which drops their tank DPS. DRK's rotation doesn't have to change.

Honestly, take whatever two tanks you have and go, I've tanked all current content as an i174 DRK and had zero complaints. There was talk of DRK not being able to solo tank Ravana Ex, but there's already videos of that too. I run with a static so I'll always have a second tank since he only like tanking, just like me!

I'll be playing DRK/WAR in Alex, actually bought my law axe and upgraded it instead of finishing my law jewelry hahaha. I was just really excited to get WAR to 60, only 5 more!

[shinros]

Inb4 Alexander has loads of magic bosses.

[Tila]

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I have wondered. If DRK had an easier time with mana, that is to say, if they could use dark arts constantly with a normal rotation rather than relying on grit/blood weapon swapping, would they be considered fine? I understand that people like the mana resource mechanic, but is it hindering them rather than helping? In a similar vein, if all their abilities that could be dark arted, were by default, where would they stand as tanks?

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Would WAR/WAR be preferable? The DRK magic mitigation isn't that much higher on those fights, and remember, a fight that's very heavily magic focused, means little to no reprisal usage. Don't forget that heavy magic means parry is rendered useless.

[Tila]

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Well the reddit poll is more a reflection on stance dancing being a difficult mechanic to get used to. When it comes to more structured and focused raiding, this won't be an issue. It of course is in a dungeon where you have, say, a WAR spending most of the last fight in Fractal in the DPS stance despite that massive cleave the boss has that can't be prepared for all that well as far as getting in fel cleaves is concerned.

The problem with saying that reprisal = inner beast is that you can prepare for inner beast. Reprisal is RNG based, making it a much harder comparison. It also ignores that Defiance is a better mitigation stance than Grit, and that the TP and Mana issues of DRK forces them into a mana gaining dps position and into a low damage TP gaining rotation for longer fights.

[Gangaloo]

Only time when DRK can be better than PLD as MT is when boss damage is pretty much all magic, Ramuh Ex for example. If there is no physical damage, PLD Blocking, Bulwark, and Sheltron are rendered useless. In this case it might be better to bring DRK.

DRK/WAR can be good in non-mnk comps against a raid boss that uses only magical tank busters.

DRK also can't use Reprisal. You can't parry on Ramuh EX.

I think people seem to keep forgetting this every time DRK is brought up as a magic based tank.

[Ipkonfig]

I'm saying they stack, you can put Storm's Path on 100% of the time and Reprisal up 66% of the time, so with DRK MT/WAR OT you get a raid wide damage reduction of 16.7%, or 20% reduction 66% of the time and 10% reduction the other 33%.

@Daega You know that Grit = Defiance = Shield Oath right? Warrior having Defiance gives them no extra bonus over the other tanks. Burst healing can only be achieved if the WAR uses Equilibrium for HP, and then they are in the same TP boat as DRK. I have zero MP issues as DRK, people honestly spam Dark Arts WAYYY to much, even with the current Dark Side draining MP bug, I still always maintain 50% MP and use Dark Arts for every CD I want, and if I need some burst healing, for Souleatters.

PLD is the king of physical mitigation, and most of that utility is very situational. Cover has a TINY range, the only time I used it regularly was in Shiva Ex during her targeted Knock Back, if she picked a DPS/Healer I would Cover + Tempered Will so I absorb the knockback but Tempered Will kept me from moving. Sheltron is great, but some of the PLDs I talk to say it gets eaten by an auto attack right before the big hit making it completely useless, Clemency is good if you are OT, or if there is some down time, but since you can't block or parry while casting it's a pretty hefty cost for something your healers can do. I do like Divine Veil and -10% STR though.

@ Stoxastic - There have been magical mechanics in almost every end game fight thus far, T13 had a few heavy hitters. Extra mitigation for anything in a boss fight is great, regardless if it's a tank buster or not.

[Tila]

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And I'm saying reprisal can't be relied upon that well. There are times when you'll need it, but who knows if you'll be able to use it. Who cares if you keep a reprisal up for periods of low AoE between the big bursts? What matters is having mitigation when you need it.

And DRK do have more TP issues than WAR. Largely due to WAR having a few no TP abilities being used on the GCD. It pads out their TP usage in a way that DRK do not have. Not to mention WAR also has a method for gaining TP back which the DRK lacks.

You also may be surprised at how many tank busters that seem magical, were physical, in ARR.