Bard - they broke my job

[Vespar]

Thank you Yoshi-P for acknowledging our concerns ^_^

[Arrik]

No hope at all. It doesn't adress the issue and he still thinks it's fine at lv60 and on top of that he says that he will have to keep an eye to see that it's not buffed a lot when it actually needs a huge buff to be of any use at all. And to be balanced with the other jobs dps.

And this is not a matter of opinion it's a fact...

This so much. I don't want it to be easier sliding into and out of WM, I want a reason to stay in WM and destroy mobs with arrows of justice! I'd much rather see potency bonuses to bring it more line with other dps, especially on the skills that require WM. You know, to actually sacrifice mobility for damage.

Edit: MCH is another can of worms, and I don't think potency bonuses are enough to save it. The RNG has probably got to go.

[Smeggles]

I am happy that they have agreed there is an issue, I am horrified that they still want to force this playstyle down our throats. I don't want to be a bow wizard, I don't care about numbers of damage, I care about how the class feels when playing it. I don't want cast times without auto attacks and I most definitely do not want to be stance dancing on a single role job.

[Cetonis]

Making WM a toggle would be the same as removing it from the game, except with worse QoL. Unless they make WM worthwhile in between your Iron Jaws and Empyreal Arrows, the Bard rotation would just become (press WM button -> IJ -> EA -> press WM button -> HS/SS x4-5 -> press WM button -> IJ -> EA -> press WM button....). And that would feel every bit as stupid as it sounds. WM would just be pointless red tape with no meaning.

It almost sounds like SE might be a little too convinced of their own internal theorycraft math, and don't fully understand the complexities introduced in real situations... but trying to judge tone from a translation is folly. I wouldn't harp too much on the "not largely increase" either, that could mean any number of things. But I do hope they don't just make it a toggle and call it a day; without other significant changes that'd just be foolish.

[Urielparadox]

Why is it that bards forget that directlyrics increase dps to other classes? If you have 2 casters in your party and using magic buff, they dps they gain is your dps, not theirs and a parser won't reflect it that way. Raid groups are more then aware of this. If your doing 900-1k dps and you increase 2 mage dps by 8% over the whole fight and the mage are putting out 1100 beforr you sing, and 1188 at the end of a fight due to your singing that puts your true dps at 1074,+ while the 2 casters is still 1100(true dps). That means your dps is as good and based on some other bards parsing at 1k, even better. They can only do that extra dps with you there, it's your damage, a parser won't show it that way. And then add in mobility in turns like t12 for instance a bards mobility is allowing your other dps to keep high numbers. If you want the same numbers as other dps, then they have to take away all your songs and utility

[Arrik]

snip

By that argument NIN should be nerfed due to them bringing everyones dps up 10% 1/6th of the time. We've been all over this "their dps is low because support" bs before...including all the other jobs buffs. We aren't a Support Job, we're dps WITH support, like every other dps in the game. Mobility is what we brought to the table and got us nerfed once already, take that away and we're another dps.

[Waeksyn]

Very depressing to read this sentence:

we will be paying close attention to the balance of each skill so the damage output at level 60 does not largely increase.

So, he is only acknowledging that the benefit is not good enough when you first get it and that it's a pain to put on and off. Specifically he is saying they will NOT address the shit poor DPS. Sigh

[Kayko]

Why are people cheering this? Yoshi is all mighty and powerful...... Nothing is being increased right now. All that is said that they are making it so BRD can now "stance dance" easier and for what? Maybe a few extra DPS? Micro manage like crazy to gain a slight bit of damage?

This is not a solution to the problems with BRD right now and we are only seeing the beginning. The scaling has been fairly consistant since they started making BRD weapons gain less damage then other damage dealing classes. The gap percentage has continued to widen as gear levels became higher and higher. Jumping in and out of WM is not a solution.

@Urielparadox and whomever liked that post. WHAT? So wait, you are attempting to quantify the low damage based on having 2 casters in your group? Guess what, that isn't a thing anymore. Groups can now have no caster damage (exception healers) in there groups without having 2 of the same job or more melee then ranged, are you really wanting content that can't be accomplished without caster damage? Should I really tell my groups MNK and DRG to get rekt and go find a new group because we need someone to make up for my damage? Also, what is this mobility in turn 12? Picking up Blue? Because, those hits for 3 and 4 damage were doing a whole heck of a lot while you had that debuff. SMN was by far better for that then any other job in the game.

[Greyluka]

I don't understand this massiv change at all for the minuett.....
Would i like to play like a caster i would play a Summoner or Blackmage.
I choose it first because the mobility and support, i don't need first place in dps but behind offtanks or whitemage is so wrong......

I bet they don't test it at all the minuett, they only summone a monster like a dummy and saw only higher numbers with minuett......ignorance to the players.

They should ask, would you play like a caster or not.

My answere? NOOOOO!!!

Sorry but i hate that minuett because it feels clunky, it don't fit the bard style.....
too massive change with it.

[Urielparadox]

My example is that an example of how with 2 caster in a party with a bard causes a bards dps out put to be the higher in the party then the 2 casters. With just 1 caster in the party the dps gap is lower and barely there. Nin is a party wide buff and a self buff, and yes the design team calculates that when plan these things. If They Buff You To be The Same power Of Any dps, You Automaticly become more more powerful then any other dps. SE is trying to increase party diversity and decrease job stacking. If you did the same dps as a Blm or smn, which you aren't that far behind according to parses shown in other threads. Nothing will be done till we find out how strong you are in 8 man content you claim you job is broken, which its not. You have to consider your jobs effect on the party, because se dpes. Which you refuse to. The job needs tweeks but it's not broken. Complaining about your own solo dps and ignoring your function on the party doesn't help plead your case. Nor does it help SE figure out what to do. What if SE's developers are squeezing out 100 more dps because they know how to use the new tools and players just haven't figured it our yet? Maybe that's why they are saying it's where it needs to be.

Edit here is a second example. During progression players take more damage and die, healers us mp and eventualy need it refresh or everyone dies. Mage balled is keeping your other dps both physical and magical alive so they can keep dps ing. Without that deat dps drops down to 400. You are the one giving the mp to keep those party members alive and keeping their dps high, without it the party would wipe earlier and progress slower each time. This also counts towards your dps (from a developmental standpoint) this is why progression grubs will continue to have bards because what good is a healer without mp. It's all about balance.