Forcing us to the entire story quest to unlock the new classes is just bad business

[Madjames]

"I don't want to play the game to unlock content" thread number 5280

I thought getting the level required to enter the next expac was doing the content. Wait, a hard level to enter the next expansion is a gate and a good thing......Having to do then MSQ when you are the level required to enter the zone is completely stupid.

[Lego3400]

I thought getting the level required to enter the next expac was doing the content. Wait, a hard level to enter the next expansion is a gate and a good thing......Having to do then MSQ when you are the level required to enter the zone is completely stupid.

The whole reason you can even ENTER Ishgard is tied to the story. If you don't finish it, they will not allow you in.

[technole]

"I don't want to play the game to unlock content" thread number 5280

Yeah, some people forget they are still playing a Final Fantasy game, not some generic MMO.

[Mclyde]

Yeah, some people forget they are still playing a Final Fantasy game, not some generic MMO.

It's not the title name that makes the good script.
Sorry to say that but the story quest is really bad. Final fantasy or not.
I still did it to enter Ishgard.... 'was just a waste of time.

[Serilder]

The sad thing about this game is that HW offers nothing at all to players who are 50 and haven't done the MSQ. The classes are something I think should be available for players once they are 30 or 50. They shouldn't be locked behind the MSQ. The reason I see getting thrown around is that it is hard to play the new classes. That is not true at all. The new classes are no harder than the ones. But I can already tell someone wants to believe they are some amazing player fighting against all odds and playing the "hard" classes.

As for the continuing into the new area, that can be locked off. Don't fool yourself saying "Do the old MSQ to get better at the game because the new stuff is harder." That is another lie, the new dungeons are the easier dungeons I have done in most mmos. Why does everyone want to believe they are playing some sort of hardcore content? The content you do in these games is being completed by millions of players.

[CrystalRainbow]

I'm going to say your wrong.

New jobs have story behind them..
That story takes place in a new area.

That area is locked behind story.
Perk of area being locked behind story. RMT will now need to buy FFXIV + HW, Then level to 60 to make good gil, Only to get banned and repeat the process. This makes it harder for them to spam content just to wreck the game.

Anything that makes it harder for RMT to wreck the game. Without breaking the game I'm all for.

Only thing I would have done differently. Is to unlock drk You would need tank class at 50, MCH need a DPS at 50, and the healer a healer at 50.

[Luvbunny]

The sad thing about this game is that HW offers nothing at all to players who are 50 and haven't done the MSQ. The new classes are no harder than the ones. Don't fool yourself saying "Do the old MSQ to get better at the game because the new stuff is harder." That is another lie, the new dungeons are the easier dungeons I have done in most mmos.

The new dungeons are not extremely hardcore. But they are not easy peasy either to the majority of casuals cassie, christie, and cathy out there. For the regulars and expert players, they can figure out the mechanics pretty fast (or they actually did watch youtube and read wiki on what to do). However, The Vault can be murder for the newbies and random new players. The average run in Japan servers for most of the dungeons are 25 minutes and under (acceptable time for casuals). Under 20 minutes if your group knows what to do, and around 12-10 minutes for the average speed runner on "old easy dungeons".

I agree the MSQ can have its "super low moments" - and the three new jobs should be available outside Ishgard (with the job quests level 50 and up start in Ishgard to "lock the content"). But this is the same deal with 3.0 MSQ, it's there to give you a variety of doing things in the game.

[Raist]

It does not matter how fast one levels. The issue is having to do 20 Hours of IRL time from the quest Fireworks and Fish do not mix to get to the quest Into Ishgard or whatever its called. In that 20 hours and countless ecs mashing I got 490k EXP. That is how much I got from all of the quests up to the ishgard opening quest that I had but didnt finish.


Sorry but the +xp and such is not worth it. Getting 4,800xp per MSQ quest is worthless when I could have been in ishgard at level 50 getting 48k per quest and leveling with friends.

This whole issue is stupid and the MSQ needs to be optional. It will be there for those who love it and able to be skipped by someone such as myself that would rather grind fates then do the stupid MSQ.

You got the 4800 per because you were on the level 50 portion---the missions give proportionally more xp for the under 50 crowd. Also, you are not meant to level solely from the MSQ rewards. You are expected to play the game as well to get more in tune with your job's capabilities and limitations (ideally with others...after all there is the MMO portion of an MMO-JRPG). There are things you can engage in as part of your daily routine like hunt logs, challenge logs, daily roulette, leves, and such--all of which grant the extra xp needed along the way to keep your level in check as you progress the story at a casual pace.

Also, have to keep a proper perspective. Don't know what the values are now for the pre-50 crowd, but pre-HW at level 40, the MSQ was giving north of 11k a pop for even a simple fetch quest against TNL's in the 300-400k range, and we had access to simple daily activities to help pad it as well that granted north of 20 and 30K a pop for many of them, as well as massive xp/kill in some cases---at 50 you are now getting north of 100k a pop plus any internal xp for some of those same daily activities (of which you have 4 at your disposal) against an 864k TNL. For example, MSQ roulette starts hitting over 200k as you level up---seen some trials reward north of 200k as well.

Now, if you are trying to steam roll through the pre-50 portion in one weekend it may present more of a challenge--you would need to spam dungeons/roulettes(missing out on the daily bonus), burn leves down, and/or jump on the FATE train (possibly a mix of both). But it is hardly on par with waiting/shouting for hours to get into an xp party to get your levels so you can progress the story---this game provides you the tools to progress your levels with a helluva lot less grind--if you do it right, you may find there is virtually no grind component at all now.

Even before the tweaks, I found I could run MSQ a bit, got xp a bit, run MSQ some more, XP a bit more--and was always ready to run the next new batch of content when it was released. And I was leveling multiple jobs in parallel to control my inventory space--3 mages, 2 DD, and 2 tanks to be exact. I'm sorry, but ANY argument to the effect of leveling being an issue in this game is laughable at best at this point.

[Luvbunny]

Leveling from 1 to 50 doing vanilla 2.0 MSQ is EXTREMELY FAST now, it is insane. You don't even need to do much of dungeon spam grinds if you mix it up with quests, FATE, levequest, weekly challenge and daily roulette at lower level (which you only have 2 options). I think the major beef most players have is the 2.1-2.55 part of the quests, which they really do need to tweak. XP reward should have been 12k-18k range to speed up the leveling process (and let you reach level 51 by the time you arrive in Ishgard). They should also make ALL dungeons 2.1-2.55 give 1200-1800 xp per mob, to make these dungeons another variety of things to do to get XP.

The XP rewards in 3.0 quests starts around 20k and it goes up as you level up. Level 51 dungeons give around 225k exp per run if you have food + xp buffs + resting XP for your first time, and 330k xp if you are getting armory bonus. This is fine for the first few levels, but starting at level 56 things are getting so "extremely slow" to level up and you will notice the BIG grind and trolling move from SE. You better love quests (levequest, FATE, daily hunt list, etc) - because the MSQ will start getting spare and the XP needed to level up getting pretty big... At least the new dungeons are fun, great music, and looks amazing compared to the old dungeons, so grinding them do not feel like a chore.

[LineageRazor]

And thanks for acknowledging the difference in effort/commitment between the two. Even though on paper the path looks shorter in XI, it demanded more of the player than XIV...something that seems to not be considered in these debates. Completing MSQ ARR to 2.55 really doesn't require much effort with all tweaks in place now. It wasn't too complicated before either, but now the XP and gear progression are both fast-tracked and with the existing 50+ incentivised to run roulettes (made 1.2 mill exp with minimal effort and <5 or at worst 10 minute queues...on BLM), story progression is enhanced as well.

There's a reason why comparing the grind in FFXI directly to the one in FFXIV is something you need to be careful about. FFXI was an earlier MMO, when horrendous grinds were both tolerated and expected. FFXI's grinds were bad, but they were not even remotely the worst grinds of MMO's of its day. It's not fair to respond to claims that unlocking new jobs in FFXI was possible right out of the box with, "Yeah, but in FFXI, it could take a month or more to level to 30 casually, and it takes about that long to get through MSQ in FFXIV, so it's pretty much the same!"

No, it's not the same. Today's players, for better or for worse, have a much briefer attention span when it comes to MMOs. If they can't get through content quickly, if the grinds go on for too long with no alternatives, they lose interest and move on to other MMOs where the shiny bits are easier to reach. I don't necessarily believe this is a good thing or a bad thing - it's just the way the industry stands right now. However, it DOES mean that when you compare new MMOs to old MMOs, you need to be conscious of what "fast" meant then and now. In FFXI, leveling a job to 30, and a subjob to 15 as well, could easily take a month or more - and that was considered a blink of an eye.

Getting through the Main Scenario, getting a job to 50, getting a high enough ilvl to access Steps of Faith - that is an impressive grind by today's standards. Maybe even an oppressive grind. It may be a laughable grind compared to getting a job into your 50's to deal with the Shadowlord in FFXI - but it is not 2004 anymore. When you compare effort spent now to effort spent then, getting a job to 30 to unlock new jobs in FFXI is comparitively as much effort as getting past Ifrit Trial Mode - in other words, widely considered so easy as to not even be worth considering.

Gating all of Heavensward behind what is, by today's standards, a lengthy grind, was not wise. It discourages folks from buying the expansion along with the base set. Right now, you'd have to be a fool to buy the ARR/Heavensward combo pack instead of just ARR - you have no idea if you're going to like the game and stick with it, and the Heavensward part gives you nothing up-front to entice you. Here's the scenario we want to see: A potential buyer sees two games in front of her, ARR and ARR/Heavensward. The latter costs twice as much, so she plans on buying just ARR, and if she likes it, she'll pick up the expansion later. Oh, but wait - if she buys the expansion NOW, she can play as Machinist! That job looks cool! She buys the combo. Maybe she sticks with it for the long haul, maybe not (and actually being able to play as the cool job she saw on the package certainly may help lean toward the former), but either way, that's extra money in SE's pocket up-front.

VARIOUS POSTERS: But the new jobs are JOBS not CLASSES, they need to start at 30! It makes no sense to let players play them right out of the box!

The new jobs break a lot of rules already. They have no associated class. You can't remove their soul crystal. They do not have Hunting Logs. There's no reason they can't break OTHER rules, like gaining their soulstone and becoming unlockable at level 10, like Rogue, or even level 1.

Even if we insist that they must start at level 30, there's no reason that they couldn't have placed them in Central Coerthas, like Dragoon was. As it stands, the lvl 30-50 Job Quests for MCH, AST, and DRK mostly take place in ARR areas anyway, simply because wandering around the Heavensward zones is too dangerous for a sub-50 player. For players who love the existing storylines for these jobs - honestly, those storylines wouldn't have to change much at all. The only difference is you'd be meeting the quest-givers initially in Coerthas Central Highlands instead of in Ishgard, and all of them could have any of a number of reasons for traveling there.

Placing the new jobs behind such a requirement was never necessary - not from a lore perspective, not from a gameplay perspective, and certainly not from a customer satisfaction perspective. So, it is puzzling to me why they did it...