With all these astrologian complain threads

[Shyluv]

I've read some complaints and don't really understand them. My AST is 60 now. Outside of dps being complete derps, I've have no mana problems or trouble keeping a tank up. And the cards aren't bad either.

[Kaizersan]

http://xivdb.com/?skill/189/Lustrate

http://xivdb.com/?skill/150032/Embrace

http://xivdb.com/?skill/166/Aetherflow

http://xivdb.com/?skill/150033/Whispering-Dawn

You make it sound like adlo is the only spell SCHs can cast at all. Abilities don't exist in a vacuum.

I was doing something called comparing moves to their counterparts not to other moves as lustrate is not the counterpart to Aspect Benefic same with the rest of those spells and none of those allow you to heal 2 people at once with just one cure.

[fanservice]

I was doing something called comparing moves to their counterparts not to other moves as lustrate is not the counterpart to Aspect Benefic same with the rest of those spells and none of those allow you to heal 2 people at once with just one cure.

http://xivdb.com/?skill/3583/Indomitability

The fairy can be ordered to heal someone else you're not healing.

Whispering dawn is an AOE HOT.

Lustrate has a recast time of one second, effectively allowing the SCH to heal two people in the same amount of time it takes for an AST to finish the cast of one spell during synastry.

[Kaizersan]

http://xivdb.com/?skill/3583/Indomitability

The fairy can be ordered to heal someone else you're not healing.

Whispering dawn is an AOE HOT.

Lustrate has a recast time of one second, effectively allowing the SCH to heal two people in the same amount of time it takes for an AST to finish the cast of one spell during synastry.

Fairy still has to move in range to heal and fairy heals are no where near as high as Benefic 2 even at 50% of Benefic is still higher and your lustrate has a 6 max use which if you were to use them all you would screw your mp regen up while Aspect Benefic doesn't have a 6 time limit and can crit for 2k plus which is basically 4k due to the barrier with proper use of cards it's better overall.

[Ghishlain]

Wow healers are catty.

We just love to argue.

[fanservice]

Fairy still has to move in range to heal and fairy heals are no where near as high as Benefic 2 even at 50% of Benefic is still higher and your lustrate has a 6 max use which if you were to use them all you would screw your mp regen up while Aspect Benefic doesn't have a 6 time limit and can crit for 2k plus which is basically 4k due to the barrier with proper use of cards it's better overall.

Now we're comparing apples and oranges, you're comparing the fairy that's out all the time to a situational 2 minute cooldown that lasts 20 seconds, grasping at straws about fairy being in range (that's what the place command is for), claiming using lustrates screws up MP regen (it doesn't), and it's getting annoying talking to people that make me doubt they play this game at all before coming to the forums, or read other posts while on the forum, you included.

SCHs are stronger healers than ASTs. Period. Everyone with sense knows this. Don't argue it.


Are ASTs functional? Yes
Do they have problems? Yes
Do they have a place in 8 mans? In my opinion, yes
Can they react to unexpected damage as well as/more consistently WHM or SCH? No. Especially not SCH. They have the game's most consistent 'oh shit heal'
Can they outdo a WHM or a SCH in raw healing? Hell no

What are ASTs good at? Their card buffs are good, but tied to RNG, with benefits potentially marginalized by SCH's personal DPS. Their AOE healing is a tad more consistent than SCH, but the need for consistent AOE healing has been dying after 2.0 titan hard mode, and the days people took on T4 in darklight, making the AOE phase an inevitability.

If you think any of the bolded is wrong, I'm sure someone else will tell you the same thing I'm force-feeding you. If you don't disagree, there's nothing further to discuss.

[Tranquil]

I forgot what this actual topic was about seeing as the responses are shifting from how AST is not underpowered or bad, to how easy the SCH supposedly is to play, etc. Well, let's do this anyway.

If you weren't DPS'ing much on WHM, you're not going to DPS more with AST. If you were primarily letting Eos/Selene do cures before as SCH and you play WHM or AST, you'll find that you have to do all the healing and as a consequence have less opportunity to DPS.

You don't let the fairy do anything, you make it do things. Some of you are talking about SCH as if it was just, "let the fairy do its thing and look pretty", which is not the case, but something you can get away with regardless in easier content or when you've overgearing things etc. It seems to me like some of you are basing your scholaring views at large based on this kind of sloppy and inefficient play, if the posts are anything to go by. Healing awareness is a thing, even if you're in CS. A part of healing awareness is knowing how well your partner can maintenance heal (ie. heal without dents in their MP-sustainability), being able to calculate incoming damage on the fly - unmitigated and with the present levels of mitigation - and accomodating to these needs without fucking up.

A good, career off-DPSing SCH is not unaware of the healing requirements, even if they sit in Cleric Stance for as long as it is comfortable to do so. They are manually forcing out fairy heals via never-ending Embrace keybind spam whilst simultaneously hitting keybinds for their own GCDs, moving or doing whatever it is they need to do. The throughput levels get high and rhytmical when you never waste a single GCD of your own or the fairy's. Just because one is not healing manually using their own GCDs doesn't mean they are ignorant towards what happens during the fight - most of the time it's the complete opposite in high-end raiding. Spamming Embraces manually easily adds a ton of HPS on your fairy which makes the MP-sustainability of your co-healer who is "main healing" a lot better. ("Auto-Embraces" are triggered at 80% HP and below, so them not going out in a pre-casted fashion when someone is at 81-100% and about to be struck again adds up a lot of reactive patch-up healing over time).

A good SCH is expected to have the highest throughput and a lot of dexterity by constantly keeping tabs on everything depending on the variables of the time, serving as a quasi-DPS, never having an idle GCD [your own or the fairy's], mitigating the spikes on demand, adapting to situations etc. Even if the HPS of a SCH doesn't end up being high in off-DPS heavy fights, the times heavy healing for spikes is needed, it can not be omitted. This game has a lot of spike-healing moments followed by a ton of fluff, especially with tank killers and other things that benefit more from timely proactive mitigation rather than healing - which a SCH has had to do. At least this has been the case so far.

And while it's true SCHs have superior MP-sustainability, it can be pretty buttclenchingly brutal on you to pump out tons of DPS in progression, whilst also balancing the healing so that your co-healer doesn't suffer from your actions, whilst also mitigating on demand and constantly be doing something. Something like the first few weeks of 2.4 and pushing T13, for instance.

I really don't like to do these "my job is harder than yours" -debates, and I am not even saying SCH somehow is the be-all-end-all job transcending time and space, but it's pretty irritating when people are legit downplaying some aspects of its gameplay and the things required of it in an endgame setting, caricaturing the actual ideal gameplay pretty badly. (Yes there are a ton of SCHs who are bad).

Now, whoever reads this and thinks I am comparing the required duties of SCH's with those of WHM's and AST's - I am not. I don't want you to get back at me with some listings, I know what it entails to be a healer. I am merely posting feedback to these people who are seeing SCH as some sort of freeloader party slot who just facerolls it up as a wannabe DPS and lets that lil fairy do its thing.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Snip

I asked you to elaborate, thus you did. I answered accordingly to whatever you proposed as "problems". However, you brought in additional tools that are unrelated to the issues you mentioned before. This would cause a chain that would last forever and ever, which I have no intention of triggering. So unless you have anything to add that would find faults or practical/theoretical purposes to the Astrologian alternatives I've provided to the points you have mentioned in another post, I'm ending it here.

[fanservice]

I forgot what this actual topic was about seeing as the responses are shifting from how AST is not underpowered or bad, to how easy the SCH supposedly is to play, etc. Well, let's do this anyway.

-The topic was a thinly-veiled complaint thread about complaint threads. By that, I should be ashamed I contributed to making this thread this long.

-OP taking a subtle jab at people saying AST has shortcomings (which they do, very noticeable ones).

-In response, I write up all the factors SCH has that contribute to that mentality.

-Then like a child, the OP decides to tl;dr me when they can't face facts, or whoever was reading the thread for them called it a night.

However, you brought in additional tools that are unrelated to the issues you mentioned before.

Every heal a SCH doesn't need to lose a GCD to use is a tool related to the issue. AST does not have nearly as much. See below.

So unless you have anything to add that would find faults or practical/theoretical purposes to the Astrologian alternatives.

I did; their healing output is inferior, and restricted by GCDs more than SCH heals.
Their MP sustain is lower. Emergencies are where the strain is put on healer MP the most.
SCHs have direct healing output buffs. ASTs lack that.

I spelled that out for you on multiple occasions. That is why AST is not as flexible in an emergency.

[Kaizersan]

Your fairy can die while AST healing like WHM is tied to the player and if your fairy dies your HPS drops by a lot and spamming Lustrate does effect your mp regen as you no longer have charges left to help your mp regen what AST has is cards the ability to make all their heals instant cast on the move with light speed and the ability to heal 2 people at once no matter the distance making AST the most mobile healer in the game.