Not finding DRK squishy at all.

[Reynhart]

I've recently tried Turn 11 in a 7-man PT.
Both the other tank and me were DRK (lvl 56 for him and 53 for me)

As soon as the boss starts, we were literraly destroyed as each cleave hit us for around 4-5k. We felt really strange, having doone the fight several times, him as a WAR and me as a PLD. After numerous wipes, we left, took our old tank, and came back.
As a WAR, he was taking 4-5k with each cleave and I was more around 3-3.5k.

Strange that he should take the same damage as a WAR 50 than a DRK 56, and I should take less as a PLD 50 than a DRK 53.

So, we decided to do some test on normal mobs. We stayed in AoE for several minutres, comparing damage taken between a DRK 56 in Grit and a PLD 50 in Shield Oath (Weapons sheated, back turned, no parry or block).
It appears that the DRK took constantly more damage than the PLD...Something like 250 vs 300. In fact, even if I canceled Shield Oath, I still took less damage than the DRK.

Remember that he has 6 more level than me, a better Defense, magic Defense, Vitality and even Elemental resistance. He wxwas above me in everything.

First, we though that maybe Grit is bugged, so he canceled it...and took even more damage.

Ok, so if the skill works fine, maybe Defense is the problem. So, we removed all gear to bring our defense to 0...and we started to take both almost the same damage.

We plan to do some more testing to see if this first clue can be confirmed. If DRK's defence is bugged, it can explain why some people find the DRK very squishy for some content.

[RuneSevalle]

Ok, so if the skill works fine, maybe Defense is the problem. So, we removed all gear to bring our defense to 0...and we started to take both almost the same damage.

We plan to do some more testing to see if this first clue can be confirmed. If DRK's defence is bugged, it can explain why some people find the DRK very squishy for some content.

Please tell me you filed a bug report about this. This is a pretty important oversight if DRK is broken in such a way. Just compounds the issue of our CDs being pretty meh.

[Reynhart]

Please tell me you filed a bug report about this. This is a pretty important oversight if DRK is broken in such a way. Just compounds the issue of our CDs being pretty meh.

I'll do it after more tests.
A couple of hits is hardly enough evidence.

[Kaedan94]

They probably can if they overgear it.
Nappreap gives i160 gear, its tuned for people with i148/i150 gear actually less then that as it doesn't expect that you have a full set of Library gear or quest gear. I170 gear is overkill if Dps can't "tank" it probably because of aggro concerns.
I can tank it with 6 str accessories in DPS stance already, which only says to me an overgeared dps will probably be able to tank it so long as they were able to hold aggro.

The new dungeons aren't hard or at least they aren't hard for very long. Ilvl 145 requirements when you could probably do the content in i130. If you're i160-i170 you're over gearing by 15-25 levels lol.

If you specify situations like that, then technically anything is possible. So it's not really helpful for discussion. I still do not believe a melee DPS could tank the new dungeons even overgeared though. The new mobs in HW hit a lot harder and have a lot more HP than their 2.x counterparts. A WAR in DPS stance is still worlds more tanky than a melee DPS.

[BadRNG]

We plan to do some more testing to see if this first clue can be confirmed. If DRK's defence is bugged, it can explain why some people find the DRK very squishy for some content.

Have you tested any of this with a DRK and WAR/PLD of equal level in non-synced content? I ask because I have heard of other instances of people doing synced content and, despite(or perhaps because) being higher level, taking much more damage than normal. Similarly, try a DRK at 50 and the PLD at 53.

[Reynhart]

Have you tested any of this with a DRK and WAR/PLD of equal level in non-synced content? I ask because I have heard of other instances of people doing synced content and, despite(or perhaps because) being higher level, taking much more damage than normal. Similarly, try a DRK at 50 and the PLD at 53.

Equal level, not yet.
But we checked on overworld monsters, like peistes near Bluefog.

But it seems to us that an higher level, with more defense and elementral resist should always take less damage. I even removed my shield to prevent some invisible bonus that might apply.
But I'll do more test as soon as I can

[Tiqa]

I tested soloing Titan HM, once DRK with grit off, then grit on, once PLD with oath on, then off...

DRK takes about 20% more damages than PLD, even if defense were similar (DRK was even higher than PLD by 3 points).

DRK def need to be fixed, that's why we seem so squishy atm.

DRK with grit on is on par with PLD in sword oath or with WAR (+20% dmg due to bug , -20%dmg due to grit)



I can't remember who was saying that DRK was a PLD without a shield... I'd rather say that DRK (with grit!) is a WAR without any HP bonus

[Hundred]

When you reach level 51+ your stat weights are different, so you'll take more damage then someone level 50 in level 50 content until you're far enough that your Gear now provides the same mitigation.

Basically: Stat formulas are different for level 51+ characters so they end up taking more damage as a result.

[Reynhart]

When you reach level 51+ your stat weights are different, so you'll take more damage then someone level 50 in level 50 content until you're far enough that your Gear now provides the same mitigation.

Basically: Stat formulas are different for level 51+ characters so they end up taking more damage as a result.

Noted. I'll do further testing with two tanks at the exact same level.

[Vurtney]

I tested soloing Titan HM, once DRK with grit off, then grit on, once PLD with oath on, then off...

DRK takes about 20% more damages than PLD, even if defense were similar (DRK was even higher than PLD by 3 points).

Interesting. My DRK is only 54 and my 2 other tanks still sitting at 50. I might do some testing as well. Looks like Grit needs a defence buff tagged to it with the existing dmg mitigation (or buff Grit mitigation)

If DRK defence is lacking as it seems, that explains why the dmg we take is so inconsistent.