A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[RichardButte]

you all say we pay for this we pay for that, but i ask you why the hell did you pay for that if you already knew that you are locked without finishing the story? there were notices on the loadstone since ages ago.

Unless they said on the lodestone that you had 350+ skull-crushingly boring fetch quests to look forward to, it doesn't matter.

I didn't start this thread with the objective of making the story quest optional: it's a good way to level and I think the story is decent for the most part.

It's just that the buildup of level 50 MSQ was intended to be consumed over the course of months, not days, and as such it was written with an astounding amount of filler. When we were doing a little bit of it each month, it was fine. Having to plow through all of it to try out the new classes? Not fine...

But as has been pointed out in this thread, who would be harmed if the "gating" aspect of the MSQ was removed outright? The simple answer: no one.

As it stands, FFVIX's story is one gigantic "attunement process" in an era where MMOs have largely done away with attunement processes. I don't mind having to talk to an NPC who "introduces" me to a dungeon so I can then run it.

I like that they try to have lore tie into the world, but too much of ANY good thing turns into a bad thing, and the amount of "attunement process" to go through before you can even access the new content is staggering.

And as I said before, it's mostly fetch quests. If it was just "run these dungeons and kill these primals", sure, no problem. I can HELP my friends with that (and I will). I cannot, however, help them with hours upon hours of running around, right clicking NPCs in a "story" that they stopped paying attention to a while ago because so much of it was filler and fluff.

Really, if every story quest just got RIGHT to the point and sent you to the duty finder, I don't think we'd be seeing this issue.

[Exotik_Legacy]

I see the MSQ as mind numbingly long, it loses its grasp on the player's mind from all the fluff. You lose touch with what exactly you were doing as opposed to, oh yeah gonna go here and do this and that makes this do that and then we can kill that. Its more along the lines of *into quests killing it* -Fluff for about 50 quests- where was I going again? what am I doing? *Picks up final quest where it is awesome* Oh yeah lets do this - then 3 quests later its more fluff. Its a lengthy boring stroll across maps fetching random things that make you disconnect from the actual story.

I believe they should make the new classes open for use from the get-go because as a new player I purchased both under the advertising/impression that the class was new, not roadblocked, now I need to fight through a month of work to play this NEW ADVERTISED PLAYABLE CLASS to actually enjoy what I purchased the game to play.

[Voltyblast]

I believe they should make the new classes open for use from the get-go because as a new player I purchased both under the advertising/impression that the class was new, not roadblocked, now I need to fight through a month of work to play this NEW ADVERTISED PLAYABLE CLASS to actually enjoy what I purchased the game to play.

Talk about bait and switch I suppose: new players hoped to make a Dark Knight or a Machinist when they reached 30, only to find out that they must play out months of content to even unlock it and I'm pretty sure that nothing was mentioned in the ads or other medias: only on official pages and patch notes and if I didn't read it back at 2.5 I would've been in the same situation!

[Luvbunny]

As it stands, FFVIX's story is one gigantic "attunement process" in an era where MMOs have largely done away with attunement processes. I like that they try to have lore tie into the world, but too much of ANY good thing turns into a bad thing, and the amount of "attunement process" to go through before you can even access the new content is staggering. And as I said before, it's mostly fetch quests. If it was just "run these dungeons and kill these primals", sure, no problem. I can HELP my friends with that (and I will). I cannot, however, help them with hours upon hours of running around, right clicking NPCs in a "story" that they stopped paying attention to a while ago because so much of it was filler and fluff.

You and all your friends will hate Heavenward with passion. Not only it is a big huge mess of attunement process, it is also full of FETCH quests in the most boring way possible (oh you cannot find your bow? you want me to click it and bam done, give it to you? - my goodness you want me to go to point A all the way there, then B all the way up, then C and back again.....). Lots of hide and seek quest with NO MARKER, or indication where things are unless you really try exploring (at least 5-15 minutes can be spent "exploring").

Not only that the map is HUGE, elevation up and down, and they intentionally make you run around in circle round and round and round to extend gameplay time. Trust me, you cannot help them with hours upon hours running around on each zone. And these quests are hiding potential aether access, that is buried under 2-4 quests chains. If you hate quests and MSQ, there is nothing to like in HW, the amount of dungeons are PALE in comparison with 2.0.

On the other hand, any new players starting FF14 right now will get their 30 days subscription time worth every single penny. It is astounding when it comes to sheer amount of content in 2.0-2.55, and a good 50-70 hours in Heavensward alone to complete. All I can say is, enjoy, explore, and really take the time to read MSQ, do fetch quest, and FATE, pay attention where the mobs are all located etc... This is NOT a race to the finish to access everything, especially if you have been gone since patch 2.1

[RichardButte]

You and all your friends will hate Heavenward with passion. Not only it is a big huge mess of attunement process, it is also full of FETCH quests in the most boring way possible (oh you cannot find your bow? you want me to click it and bam done, give it to you? - my goodness you want me to go to point A all the way there, then B all the way up, then C and back again.....). Lots of hide and seek quest with NO MARKER, or indication where things are unless you really try exploring (at least 5-15 minutes can be spent "exploring").

Not only that the map is HUGE, elevation up and down, and they intentionally make you run around in circle round and round and round to extend gameplay time. Trust me, you cannot help them with hours upon hours running around on each zone. And these quests are hiding potential aether access, that is buried under 2-4 quests chains. If you hate quests and MSQ, there is nothing to like in HW, the amount of dungeons are PALE in comparison with 2.0.

HW is new content. Every zone is large, expansive and interesting. Yes, the quests have similar objectives, but I'm not accomplishing them by running back and forth across the same zones I've been hunting in for two years now.

It's also very much possible to unlock flying long before you've completed all side quests, making them go that much faster.

Also, the story itself happens far more quickly, the dialogue is more concise (and I feel better written) and the MSQ takes you rapidly through the zone with a minimal amount of fetching/chores involved. When it does involve chores, it typically makes sense as well, like killing Nankas for meat so we can trade with the Gnath and start a dialogue (there were actually more items we needed, but the other characters actually went and acquired those. Had this been 2.5, the player would've likely had to gather all of those for him/herself).

There's just no comparing the concise, efficient storytelling of HW to the filler-laden death march of going through 2.0-2.5 at 50 which was essentially designed to artificially extend the play time.

I'm not even trying to rag on the MSQ that was added to the game between 2.0 and 2.55. For the time it was released, it was fine.

Now than an expansion has arrived, however, the time has come to reevaluate older content to see if it should really be a prerequisite for accessing newer content.

On the other hand, any new players starting FF14 right now will get their 30 days subscription time worth every single penny. It is astounding when it comes to sheer amount of content in 2.0-2.55, and a good 50-70 hours in Heavensward alone to complete. All I can say is, enjoy, explore, and really take the time to read MSQ, do fetch quest, and FATE, pay attention where the mobs are all located etc... This is NOT a race to the finish to access everything, especially if you have been gone since patch 2.1

The problem with this line of thinking is that players have different reasons for playing a game. For you, clearly the story is a big pull (which is fine).

For others, like one of my friends in particular, he didn't care abut the story one bit (he's been mashing ESC throughout all of the 50 MSQ because of how obscenely long it is), but he thinks Machinist looks awesome and wants to main it.

And that's the key reason why it'd be great if SE made the MSQ at 50 shorter or skippable outright: people are drawn to play MMOs for a whole number of reasons, and saying, "No, you can't play the new content we've added until you slog through ALL of the old content" is insane from a business perspective.

How many people were interested in HW but opted not to even buy it when they learned about the 50 MSQ grind? (the number isn't zero, I can vouch for that fact :P )

If WoW forced players to go through every story and raid quest prior to being able to access the next expansion worth of content, they'd never sell a single "WoW Battlechest", ever.

Reevaluating older content is standard practice when releasing an expansion, and SE should seriously consider giving players a means of progressing through the MSQ without all of the fluff and deliberate padding.

Also, the general rule of thumb I have is "let people play the game their own way".

I know people who would be happy to do nothing in FFXIV except gather stuff and craft it into other stuff, never even attacking a single monster if it was an option.

It's a shame that FFXIV doesn't actually allow a crafter/gatherer to progress through the story quest or skip it. I realize it would make RMTing easier, but if a legit player wants to do nothing but pay SE $15 a month to craft and gather, I say they should be able to.

[SovereignAegis]

After playing heavensward I can tell you for a fact if you don't have any idea what is going on in the story you're going to be so abysmally confused it will burn.

[Shykrin]

Richard is correct. At the end of the day, there's only a handful of the MSQ that are actually IMPORTANT to the overall story, that are, in fact, true story. The rest of it is unnecessary and tedious. It's a huge detractor for new players or even players who took a long break and decided to return for Heavensward. My husband is currently stuck with this current situation. He decided to return when Heavenward came out to play the game with me but first has to finish his story quests before we can move on with the game. He JUST finished the Moogle King. It will be at least two weeks before we can actually play together with his current playtime.

So I agree, keep the important stuff that contributes to the actual story and just cut everything else. We don't need it.

[LucySw]

i disagree why because we had to do it too
how ever who dont like the game dont play it! serously... i dont get it why people want to play a game just to hit max lvl with a class o.o...
the quest system is the core of FINAL FANTASY ...
if u like games without a hard based quest system go play gw2 or diablo or even maple story where u seriously just grind till max lvl (250... ^^)
so stop crying about it ...
if ur friends dont want to joyn let it bee why cut the content for lazy people ? its not like an mmo have to be finished in a cartain time ... u bought the game to be able to spend ur free time enjoyng new stuff not to do the same old thing as in usual games...
we get for idk 70 bucks enouth gameplay to be bound to it for 2 years ? yah but if u just rush it u are done in 1 week with ewrything
+ they added exp to all lvl 50 quests so u gona outlvl enyway and get geared for hw (seriously if just lvl up to 50 u cant enjoy hw bcs of gear limitation... u die on the first mob!)

[Luvbunny]

Richard, HW has the same filler quests, EVERYWHERE!!! MSQ moves you along, but it is about the same pace as MSQ in 2.0-2.55, the only BIG HUGE in your FACE difference is, HW is NEW, SHINY, and everyone WANTS IT NOW!!!!!!!!! Overall to experience HW fully, you still have to do those fetch quests, it is the same grind, but it comes with several different flavors. From boring kill X amount of mobs, fetch quest, find stuffs, check item, go find in nook and cranny aetherquests, moogle, blah blah blah. Same deal.

Also if your friends despise story and keep hitting ESC, he will be totally clueless in HW since it is quite dense with story and backstory. I agree they could probably trim a few fats everywhere in this game when it comes to MSQ. But people have been complaining about being forced to grind FATE.... Now you can do xp via Duty Roulette (main missions, trials, low levels, guildhest, high level, weekly challenge, levequest, temple quest, FATE, chain quests in each areas, hunt boards, etc....) The amount of "repetitive grind contents" are astounding, but it comes with different flavors.

It's like this, if you are the type of players who hate MSQ inane crazy fetch quests in 2.0-2.55, you will be sorely disappointed since HW is more of the same but bigger and longer. Also, if ALL of your friends have to do this for the first time, everything is NEW on 2.1-2.55, just like everything will be new in HW. You know, I sincerely suspect it is you that has the problem having to redo this for all of your 7 alts, hah hah hah. I would be furious as well, I have to grind for 3 characters, imagine doing it three times. But I will take 2.0-2.55 any day now over HW.... the amount of work you need to do is astounding to level all your alts, again.

I think the main issue here is, people just want to get to the three main jobs without having to complete the MSQ, so they can just you know, level up ASAP. As well as gating the access to HW Ishgard is a big problem. They could just let people with expansion do 5 chain quests to open Ishgard skipping main story, but if you want to do MSQ in Heavenward, you have to finish the 2.55 MSQ. This way, everyone can enjoy ASAP, but they cannot access new dungeons + MSQ + endgame without going through 2.0-3.0.

[Vlady]

I do not think it is that big of a deal. Heavenward came out friday and my friend who joined last tuesday managed to finish the main scenario with about 3-4 hours played a day within a week. MMO's are not games like Diablo or offline rpgs or shooters you want to join with your friends. The design of an MMO is a lengthy character progression and being able to just obtain all of your goals in a quick fashion (which some people hit 60 in 2 days and have all 180 gear within 4 days) is not in the interest of the design of an MMO. Two weeks is not much time to be new to finish and become a machinist. Why not join your friend as he levels up and have fun with him instead of expecting him to catch up on his own to you? Works both ways. You can play with him already if you choose.