[Massive spoilers - do not read until storyline complete] I hate the ending

[Cilia]

The Immortal Flames are the Grand Company that are a part of the Eorzean Alliance, not the Brass Blades, Crystal Braves, or even Ul'dah at large. As long as they're part of the Eorzean Alliance it still stands, but if we'd gone on a rampage and started killing guards they would have gotten involved. Quickly. Similarly other Grand Company leaders going on a rampage would give Ul'dah (not the Flames) every reason to declare war on them, and since the Flames are based out of Ul'dah... well, you know what would happen.

Wait, wait. Lolorito, Ilberd, Laurentius, and pretty much every other Brass Blade and Crystal Brave in Ul'dah is corrupt?

...

OF COURSE THEY [kupo!] ARE!!!

That's why there's jack-all we can do about it! They are holding all the chips, and in the position we were in there was absolutely nothing we could do! They played everyone in the room like a fiddle to the last; even Teledji was just Lolorito's puppet! The Brass Blades have always been corrupt thugs, and in case you weren't paying attention (which seems somewhat likely) the clean Braves were detained by the corrupt ones, so they're not really any different anymore.

Yes, Ilberd admitted to poisoning Nanamo, but that doesn't [kupo!] matter because he is on the side of the corrupt lawmakers now. All they would have to say is that he didn't say anything, or they could just bribe the judge or jury (it's Ul'dah, and that's assuming there even is a judge and jury).

... and again, we were unarmed, so there's not really any way to go on a rampage and leave a bloodbath in our wake. We were played and cornered, and you are not an invincible god warrior.

Deal with it!

[pandabearcat]

There were plenty of people armed in the area.

There is zero chance the immortal flames wouldn't have been on our side. They wouldn't have gotten involved because the only people in uldah are the blades who are supposedly in control now.

It is unclear to the extent of the crystal braves corruption.

They have taken over rising stones and supposedly helped the blades in charge of uldah.

At the very least, taking Lolorito hostage would've helped all the scions escape from Ul'dah.

And there is no chance they can afford harming the seedseer and Merlwybb without both limsa and gridania dogpiling onto them.

The scions and the leaders had nothing to lose, instead they just ran away, while they still died miserably, so it was pretty much the worst outcome.

Also I dunno about you but I definitely was not unarmed, and as seen in the cutscenes that followed while the scions ran away, all of the scions were armed as well.

IIRC also most of the partygoers either were armed or had bodyguards with weapons.

[WhiteArchmage]

Funny, I didn't see my Nirvana zeta when I was dragged with my hands tied behind my back, and it usually is there. Also, taking a powerful political figure hostage is really grounds for your immediate execution, plus, it's horrible PR for a group of do-gooders like the Scions. Would it be in Thancred's character to take Lolorito hostage? Y'shtola's? Minfillia's? Harming any of the commanders (Raubahn excluded because of Pipin Ex Machina) would destroy the Eorzean Alliance and lay a big-ass sign for the Garleans saying: "Here! we're weak with civil strife! Conquer us!"

[Cilia]

Uggh...

1. All of the armed people in the area, excepting Merlwyb, Kan-E-Senna, their token aides, Raubahn, and the four armed Scions, were not on our side. Compare that to the who knows how many Brass Blades and Crystal Braves breathing down our necks.

2. The Immortal Flames are still on our side, but as Ul'dah's peacekeeping organization they would have no choice but to get involved if you went on a rampage. There weren't many in Ul'dah anyway; they had been mobilized to help defend the Steps of Faith.

3. The Braves are pretty much completely corrupt. Something along the lines of "We have detained all those with loyalties to the Scions. The Rising Stones is also under our control."

4. There was no opening to take Lolorito hostage. He escapes immediately after Ilberd tanks the first blow from Raubahn.

5. Civil war tears the Alliance apart, we get conquered by Garlemald. End of line.

6. Personally nobody in the room had much to lose, but it isn't about (just) you or them. We're talking politics here, the big picture. It was a shitty outcome but it was played out well. We have to think about all the moves, all the angles, not just the ones that are the most beneficial to us.

7. The Warrior of Light is unarmed from the moment they go into the Sultana's Chambers until they disembark from the wagon at Black Brush Station. If you want to confirm this, make sure you're playing a class with a large weapon (such as WAR or DRG), make absolutely [kupo!] sure your weapon is toggled on, and go rewatch the cutscenes.

... and no, most of the partygoers were not armed. That's what guards are for.

Pay attention!

[pandabearcat]

Last I checked we were about to get immediately murdered anyway. I'd be up with taking hostages at that point.

You can't get much worse PR than being accused of murdering the Sultana.

Yes your last point is my point too. Assuming the garleans had ZERO influence on this betrayal (you really think that?), and aren't already swooping in on some deal with Lolorito, he cannot afford to have all the other states against him (one reason why ishgard guy was made to leave), so they had nothing to lose by shooting that jerk right there.

I meant when I went to meet with the sultana. I had my weapon at the door. Presumably they might've taken it, but meh. None of the scions had weapons in the place as well, but they obviously pulled them out of hammerspace when poop hit the fan.

Aside from minfilia (who is pretty much entirely useless...forever) all of the scions are presumably skilled fighters. It would be in all of their characters to go and help Raubahn, and then he would go on his rampage (i totally wouldnt' stop him) and kill blue guy and lolorito. And then all would be happy.

Why would it destroy the alliance to kill Lolorito again? As people keep saying the flames (and alliance) have nothing to do with lolorito, or the blades, and Raubahn as leader of the flames would certainly back us up. Are you saying there -isn't- going to be civil war? I'm pretty sure there is going to be civil war, regardless. The flames get paid by uldah, and if uldah is unfriendly towards them, well then we're going to be losing them shortly anyway. Plus lolorito's plans of taking over that whatever field of whatever stuff is probably going to happen so, you know, they're going to end up fighting the other two nations anyway.

You're quite right that the scions are a buncha goody two shoes however. They really lack a lancer with Raubahn out of commission. However the heroes have no issue with exposing corruption and slaughtering those - do you remember tracking down the Ivy? I sure didn't hesitate to kill all of those mooks she had with her. Maybe we'd take Lolorito into captivity but those blades' lives are forfeit.

[Edellis]

1) you are not the warrior of light anymore at this point. Sure they think you are, but you and midgardsormr know better.

2) Senna and Merlwyb could not intervene. When someone gets accused of killing the most important figure in a massive state, the last thing you want to do is be put on the blaming end. This is multiplied even farther by them also being the leaders of massive states.

3) This counts also for the scions, as they are supposed to be neutral. When you kill brass blades and assist people convicted of regicide, you are being decidedly not neutral.

4) Nobody as rich as Lolorito can be killed for free, in any fantasy or reality.

5) As for why the hero (you) doesn't just slaughter everyone, this is just another bit of gameplay / story disconnect. The hero's exploits in this game is massively overplayed, never once did you slay a primal on your own and the defeat of Ultima Weapon simply wouldn't have been possible without the blessing of light...and 8 other Echo-bearing adventurers. Hydaelyn had to allow you to even damage him, and went OOM trying to save you from Ultima.

So in the end, it really doesn't matter how good you are. And even if you were good enough to murder everyone, and then adeledji, and then lolorito, you would have only dug yourself (and all your supporters) a massive hole you would literally never climb out of.


So in the end...it worked out the only way it could have, really.


To be honest...if the game made you fight and literally threw lv50 Gladiator after Gladiator, Thurmaturge after Thurmaturge at you, you would eventually lose regardless of what class you were.

Yda and Papalymo are 2 of the squishiest DPS against an army of tanks

Thancred and Yshtola had a better chance since one's a conjurer, except they're fighting archers...and an army of tanks. And probably thurmaturges.


I'm sure we all remember what happened that one silly time we ran into the redbelly hideout without a squad. You had killed Ifrit and Titan by that point, but you still got drilled.

[Waffilicious]

You know lolorito is the richest guy in possibly all eorzea right? He owns the brass blades/all dark guild/2 thirds of the guilds and most of the crystal braves. i mean if you destroy uldah even if it doesn't have the military might it has the greatest wealth and its a trading city so destroying that means no trades for the rest that diminishes your military power overall, you really don't want that.

Even if you go on a rampage and destroy people will stop trusting you, they will start thinking "he has so much power and destroyed a nation with it, what would happen if he goes on a rampage?" and no one will side with you 100% anymore only your closest friends which makes you weaker for possible all out war with ascians.

The big picture here is you proving your innocence with fact that you actually did nothing bad and the state will side with you completely even some brass blades and braves doubt the order of capturing you (some fear to do it alone) so thanks to that you can "sneak" around all the cities without being persecuted.

[saber_alter]

*sigh*
we are warriors of light. a shining example and a beacon for those who look to us. hundreds know our face. dozens would use that face if it would benefit their own drives.

"Adventurer goes berserk during celebration dinner. kills Sultana."

what a nice headline in the Mythril Eye...what would happen if people were to see this? Any wrong step, and any blood on our blade can be used as ammunition to feed lord lolorito's cause. if he dies, someone replaces him too, so killing him wouldn't work either. Especially not at a celebration where dozens of influential individuals are feasting.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I want to know what everyone's solution is for the poison if I wasn't a healer

[Waffilicious]

Same as other esuna resistant poisons bosses puts on you, or you survive it or you die