Summoner gets no new pets in expansion

[Darkstride]

Wasn't there also something about Ruin III dealing increased damage during Dreadwyrm Trance? Or only being available during trance?

[Asierid]

He certainly seems partial to arguing semantics and twisting words.

Twisting words =/= Taking them for what they are. If you're trying to get a point across, get it across, especially when it comes to text based discussions on forums. Don't just dance around the issue with poor word choices and examples that have nothing to do with the problem at hand. The basis of his speech was how a SMN was not a SMN using some convoluted historical facts and aesthetics, not about game play tweaks and theories which is what should be discussed and is more important.

While the pet certainly increases dps, it hardly needs to be juggled,

Juggling as in you need to manage it or it dies (Not helped by the fact pets are terrible at damage soaking). While I agree there could be more emphasis on interaction, it is clear thus far that they are not going that direction with the new skills being added in HW. Granted there were more pressing issues to be addressed with burst and dot/pet scaling, but seeing as it hasn't even been mentioned, I doubt we'll see anything to the effect of XI's pet management.

Other stuff

SMN really has no more utility than other mages and will do more on anything not saturated with trash adds. While SCH does have the upgrades virus as well, there are times where healing is pressured to the point that you have to do it yourself. Just because another class has the ability doesn't make it any less useful, there IS a reason you have it after all. There really isn't more interaction you could add to the pets currently (Without more skills obviously) outside of making Titan useful as Garuda and Ifrit already have their uses (Make him cover someone, least someone will actually use him then).

And the buff to SpS does give "oomph" since dots scale poorly, they always have.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Just another hypothetical, but if this glamour system is all we have to look forward to in terms of changes to the Egi, and have to wait another year for another expansion to see changes, it would behoove us to discuss and give constructive feedback on practical changes that can be made in the future.

Yeah that's what I mean. But it seems a lot of people (not all) are more focused on being cynical and pessimistic, acting as if the HW digest and new SMN abilities means the Egi are just going to stay as they are forever more. Which they may do, but they also might not so why can't people have more optimism.

I am all for hearing all peoples suggestions for SMN. But it is not enough to just say this random idea. It needs to be more comprehensive than that, by explaining how said idea would work from a game play/mechanical/balancing point of view. Only then can a truly fun and constructive discussion begin. Also if an idea just doesn't work, then it doesn't work. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.

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However I can tell you guys for a fact, SLIGHTLY larger Egi would not break the game in any way. Concerns of views being potentially obstructed are valid, but not enough to dismiss a potential Egi size increase.

The glamour system however makes a lot of sense. Yes it would have been nice to have all Egi function in unique ways. But it is what it is, and the reasons for it are justified.

Furthermore, could SMN's new abilities have been implemented via interaction with the Egi? The answer is YES they could have, quite easily in fact. However SE instead chose to try and bring a new form of summoning to SMN via Dreadwyrm Trance. Were SE wrong on that front? are the abilities broken? The answers to both are NO. The abilities work, they are fun, they are visually pleasing, they could only exist for SMN. Are they a unique take on summoning? Kinda. Is that a bad/wrong thing? NO.

Anything else is personal taste, but whether you like something or hate something, doesn't make it wrong or broken.

[pandabearcat]

Bottom line is it doesn't make sense to give say, 8 summons, when only 1 can be used at a time, and possibly only 2-3 of them are used regularly.

That is 32 skills that have to be balanced, while only 4 is ever used at a time, basically an entire class's worth of skills being completely unused.

Glamours make a whole lot of sense - there simply isn't enough reason to have 8 different niches or whatever.

[Spellbinder]

I am all for hearing all peoples suggestions for SMN. But it is not enough to just say this random idea. It needs to be more comprehensive than that, by explaining how said idea would work from a game play/mechanical/balancing point of view. Only then can a truly fun and constructive discussion begin. Also if an idea just doesn't work, then it doesn't work. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.

I'd like to think there are players hanging around these forums willing to have such a discussion, and I still intend on starting a new feedback/discussion thread maybe two weeks after release. Hopefully the forum hasn't self-destructed by that time. With any luck, it will gain some traction, some good ideas can get tossed around, and I can translate it into Japanese and see what our counterparts overseas think of things.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I'd like to think there are players hanging around these forums willing to have such a discussion, and I still intend on starting a new feedback/discussion thread maybe two weeks after release. Hopefully the forum hasn't self-destructed by that time. Hopefully it can gain some traction, some good ideas can get tossed around, and I can translate it into Japanese and see what our counterparts overseas think of things.

I would very much like for a thread like that to exist! However I fear like all previous SMN threads it will turn into "who has the best knowledge of FF history trivia" all over again.

I want to see a thread that is more in depth than that, that focuses on the actual game and it's development (models, animations, abilities, mechanics) Not a history lesson on past FF trivia and then trying to prove each other wrong on said trivia....it's just pathetic at this point. Need to move past it people.

[Spellbinder]

I would very much like for a thread like that to exist! However I fear like all previous SMN threads it will turn into "who has the best knowledge of FF history trivia" all over again.

I want to see a thread that is more in depth than that, that focuses on the actual game and it's development (models, animations, abilities, mechanics) Not a history lesson on past FF trivia and then trying to prove each other wrong on said trivia....it's just pathetic at this point. Need to move past it people.

Well, the original thread was relatively successful, although it fell into disuse after about 58 pages. The Japanese thread was only 31 pages, but it was used for a good two years until a newer suggestion thread came up, which now sits at around 104 pages. We just have to wait until release and play it by ear until a good time presents itself.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Well, the original thread was relatively successful, although it fell into disuse after about 58 pages. The Japanese thread was only 31 pages, but it was used for a good two years until a newer suggestion thread came up, which now sits at around 104 pages. We just have to wait until release and play it by ear until a good time presents itself.

Indeed, though I wonder do the Japanese threads have the same pointless vitriol from it's members? Like this threads OP.

[Spellbinder]

From what I've seen of the thread I made and the newer one, there are obviously times when people don't see eye to eye, but no real "vitriol" that I can discern from their conversations. Maybe on 2chan (or 4chan?) perhaps, but I don't frequent those parts of the interwebs.

[SoloWingMetatron]

From what I've seen of the thread I made and the newer one, there are obviously times when people don't see eye to eye, but no real "vitriol" that I can discern from their conversations. Maybe on 2chan (or 4chan?) perhaps, but I don't frequent those parts of the interwebs.

Yeah it's fine if people disagree on point's of view, but its when they start getting petty with each other that it becomes irksome. Like when the OP started blaming those who like SMN's new abilities, for the reason they did not get what they wanted. Or when people have to start quoting the definition of the word "exact".....it's like seriously, we're playing that game now are we?....oh ok, well done.