Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[AJ_Anyia]

This isn't a bash on XI or its system

Since I have increasing doubts that you have any significant experience with FFXI, I'd prefer if you don't bring it up in your arguments. There is tremendous flexibility in the subjob system merely because of how valuable certain traits/abilities were in FFXI. A Sam/War would do considerably more damage than a Sam/Nin, but be far more fragile. A Sam/Thf would have great aggro control and great burst damage, but weaker sustained DPS and slower TP gain. In ANY example, the subjob significantly augments the performance of the base job. This leads to many meaningful choices. Do I want to do more raw DPS? Can my tank handle me going war sub? Should I play it safe and help my tank with threat with Thf sub? Should I go Nin sub to lessen the burden on the healers and keep myself alive? When soloing, Dnc sub or Nin sub?

I challenge you to find any class abilities in FFXIV which so fundamentally alter your gameplay experience the way subjobs did.

That is a lop-sided challenge considering the content comparison between the two games is astronomical 22 Jobs versus 7 classes, of course the one with the higher number has more to work with. I still think that you're missing what I'm saying so I'll word it like this and use your examples. If XI's system played like XIV's then you wouldn't have to choose between DPS SAM, Utsusemi SAM, or Hate Control/Burst Damage SAM and you'd have the ability to have all of the above. You'd be able to do high burst damage with hate control and have high damage output and have shadows being able to be cast. And, again, that is a lop sided challenge considering the time that XI has been out and how long it's been developed and worked on and how much it has to offer. In other words, it has worlds more because it's been out longer. More jobs, more options, etc. All I'm saying, simply and to the point, is that I prefer this system because you have access to everything. All this illusion is just a lack of comparable content. If we were to copy and past all of the jobs from XI to XIV then we'd have SAM's that could SATA/Boost/Souleater weapon skills and Beserk/Focus/Last Resort for DPS all at once and have Utsusemi on. PLDs would be able to use Sentinel/Defender/Provoke/Perfect Counter/Chakra/Utsusemi all at once.

I'm not bashing the subjob system because it did revolutionize how the game was played and did indeed allow people more customizing options and flexibility in how they played their main jobs. But if I was on my SAM and someone told me, "You have two choices. You can either have just the skills from this other job here along with your own. Or, have all of the combat skills from all of your jobs plus your own." I think I know what I'd pick. But again, we can't do that with XIV yet because the jobs aren't there yet and it's still being worked on/fixed/tweaked.

Again, this isn't a bash on XI or its system because I am fully aware of how it impacted the game. And again I'll say this, I am fully in favor of a job system to go along-side the armory system; but not to replace. I am willing to admit and take a look at the job system for XI and am ready and willing to admit for that game it's fantastic. But this isn't XI and I don't think that XI's system should come to XIV and replace the system already in place.

[Natabant]

This isn't a bash on XI or its system



That is a lop-sided challenge considering the content comparison between the two games is astronomical 22 Jobs versus 7 classes, of course the one with the higher number has more to work with. I still think that you're missing what I'm saying so I'll word it like this and use your examples. If XI's system played like XIV's then you wouldn't have to choose between DPS SAM, Utsusemi SAM, or Hate Control/Burst Damage SAM and you'd have the ability to have all of the above. You'd be able to do high burst damage with hate control and have high damage output and have shadows being able to be cast. And, again, that is a lop sided challenge considering the time that XI has been out and how long it's been developed and worked on and how much it has to offer. In other words, it has worlds more because it's been out longer. More jobs, more options, etc. All I'm saying, simply and to the point, is that I prefer this system because you have access to everything. All this illusion is just a lack of comparable content. If we were to copy and past all of the jobs from XI to XIV then we'd have SAM's that could SATA/Boost/Souleater weapon skills and Beserk/Focus/Last Resort for DPS all at once and have Utsusemi on. PLDs would be able to use Sentinel/Defender/Provoke/Perfect Counter/Chakra/Utsusemi all at once.

I'm not bashing the subjob system because it did revolutionize how the game was played and did indeed allow people more customizing options and flexibility in how they played their main jobs. But if I was on my SAM and someone told me, "You have two choices. You can either have just the skills from this other job here along with your own. Or, have all of the combat skills from all of your jobs plus your own." I think I know what I'd pick. But again, we can't do that with XIV yet because the jobs aren't there yet and it's still being worked on/fixed/tweaked.

Again, this isn't a bash on XI or its system because I am fully aware of how it impacted the game. And again I'll say this, I am fully in favor of a job system to go along-side the armory system; but not to replace. I am willing to admit and take a look at the job system for XI and am ready and willing to admit for that game it's fantastic. But this isn't XI and I don't think that XI's system should come to XIV and replace the system already in place.

I understand where you're coming from, and of course...we would all make the same choice in theory. But I think your personal bias is getting in the way of looking at this objectively. Try to imagine how you'd feel watching a THF do all of what you just said on XI, plus having their own natural A++ rating in evasion. They have all your Store TP traits; they have Meditate; they have shadows; they have their natural affinity with crossbows, which gives them access to blood/acid/sleep bolts; and they have their recently added duel wielding trait as well. So, now, they can get faster TP than your SAM could ever dream of by duel wielding blau and merc or something, and then they can cure themselves w/ waltzs on top of all that. Does that seem like a fun game to you? Every job does everything the exact same way? And the only thing that separates them is the fact that they have a different weapon, or different base skills and attributes? Personally, I don't think so. I know I would have loved it on my MNK, but I have to imagine how I'd feel seeing some THF do the exact same thing I could. MNK was one of the few jobs that could solo a God: Genbu. Why would I support the idea of a game giving every job the ability to do what only my job and a few others were capable of doing? Furthermore, why would you support the idea of a game that allows every job to do what you did best (spam weapon skills)? It takes all the fun out of it.

Statement: "I solo'd a GOD!"

Reply: "No shit. It's easy, who hasn't?"