Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

[Shougun]

Why is there? Because the artist thought it looked [insert adjective]. You don't have to use the actual word "morality" because it is implied in the word "equal," and the way it's presented in this thread is basically censorship. Did you know that fighting a dragon doesn't make sense because they're pretend? Cat people also don't exist, and if they did it doesn't make any sense for them to only have cat ears and a tail and sometimes eyes. They'd most sensibly look like some kind monster with all sorts of strange parts. It makes no sense that they're pretty at all. But they are in the game. It's called willing suspension of disbelief. If you can accept that your character is a walking genetic freak, or that fat chocobos fly because cake - then throwing a fit about a belly hole makes no sense either.

I have less and less to add that is new to this conversation so I'm trying to avoid other/longer regurgitated points lol, but you've appropriately labeled an idea for willing suspension of disbelief but then assumed that Samcaesar or others have the same amount/areas of willing suspension - clearly she doesn't (I don't too).

Whenever I see the dragoon female armor I do a little internal face palm- it just looks insulting to me (I would be if someone did that to my gear "hah you're not flexible enough, can't wear sorry" I'd be like I'll show you! And stretch till I could make it, as females do and can do for physical power). I don't think that it's just because it's sexy gear and I'm some ancient puritan (I like sexy clothes!). It's not because FF has never had "semi"-silly gear in concept of protection, they have. It's because the males are making a logical choice and the females are making a sexual one, it's quite an obvious gender bias with little reason besides "hehe, skin". Classic video game use of females, which we all know was not generated for the fairness of females in power but to visually appreciate them - some females like this too (or given the appropriate time and place do), so it isn't surprising to hear some females like sexy gear over empowering gear (or both). However, there is currently no combatant reason why they'd make that decision, the armor will hurt yourself as it is and you are a much greater risk at the loss of the plate than with it, as plates are quite light and do not significantly hinder your movement*(compared to the reality there is a better version, the "male" version, makes this worse). If both had weird gaps, even if at different silly locations, it would be less of a gender issue and just an issue of suspension, unfortunately it is both an issue of suspension and obvious gender targeting. Which is why OP and quite a few others have said, go ahead make sexy gear just make it sexy for both~

*There is an argument that they removed the chainmail to lessen the weight to meet a fighting style - in general I'd probably not have an issue with this logic (balance cost of equipment with offensive capability, especially in a fantasy game); however, to use it as a defense for the dragoon armor I do have an issue. Females are not that weak that they can't wear the 20-50lb gear, worse reason in a "FF" fantasy game and even more so because the AF armor is meant to describe the job as a whole and so far I've yet to see a lore point where the male's of a particular job have approached the techniques of the job differently than the females (one that makes sense, because again it would be insult and inaccurate that females can't dawn a set of 25-50lb+ gear and fight well).

If there was something like females have a better connection to the spirit of dragons and baring their natural fiery belly like a dragon is a pride of this skill and a show off of its ability, and say add some really cool effect like the skin phasing into dragon like skin when taking hits, I'd buy this argument then. I'd probably want my belly shown then too as a male, and the dragon armor effect would be the lore on why it isn't a terrible armor choice - still a bit of gender targeting (unless changed for both) but at least you made some real attempt to explain it and not "females are weaker", "females are flexy so.. we give them flexy gear", or "to be feminine is to be sexy and show your skin is how to be sexy" (all three simplifications of some arguments I've seen, some have been more complex than that - to be fair).

[Zanther]

T

Cool, guess you gotta shut down the NA and EU forums cause Japan doesn't care.

Or you could just accept the fact that in Japan (and Asian cultures in general), these things are acceptable and part of their culture. Armor will reflect this like it always has in Japanese and korean games. Again, Japan doesn't care about your first world feminist agenda, and 54 pages over a belly button showing is a big reason why.

[Nestama]

The multiple threads where devs have responded to ideas by saying "yes, we will be doing this and that" and then having those ideas patched in proves you wrong, Zanther. Sure, there's a chance the Japanese, French and German boards came up with the same ideas, but the point is that the entirety of the FFXIV team does care (yes, FFXIV is made in Japan, but to say they will only listen to Japanese players is stupid. It would also put their company under a bad spot light). If they didn't, then FFXIV:ARR would never exist OR be a Japanese exclusive MMO.

The art team who designed the DRG's AF2 could have given females a belly hole, but they didn't. They made it equal for both genders.

[Noxifer]

No, your problem is you're complaining about ONE (1) [UNO] armor set, an armor set that's not only mediocre but looks like garbage out of every other armor set in the game. Your complaint is generally pointless, and comparing it to something else entirely is plain pathetic. [...] Basically, what you care about is a hole in a set of armor. A single case of gender difference.

"ooh, she's showing her belly". And? Is it seriously causing a problem?

The answer; HELL no.

Two sets. AFAIK, the i90 variety is the same as the i50/55, just another colour. Coincidentally the only two gearsets (so far) that are supposed to represent the job. Yes, if you don't want the belly window, you could glamour it over with something else. Good luck finding a piece that fits the rest of the armour set.

If they'd at least alternated the two sets. Like... had one of the sets with the belly hole and one of them (e.g. the higher tier, to represent the further training done to wear the chainmail underneath without moving more slowly) looking like the male variety, with chainmail covering the belly. Then people could have glamoured whichever version they preferred. Even better if they did the same for the male armour.

(IMO, they should have done the same with the NIN AF gear, to allow the option for those women who weren't training to become kunoichi to actually wear the ninja outfit :p But there you can at least make the culture argument. With dragoons, you have no such reference, since the real-world dragoons were basically mounted infantry, the term later coming to mean light cavalry.)

[RyuRoots]

Or you could just accept the fact that in Japan (and Asian cultures in general), these things are acceptable and part of their culture. Armor will reflect this like it always has in Japanese and korean games. Again, Japan doesn't care about your first world feminist agenda, and 54 pages over a belly button showing is a big reason why.

"feminist agenda"

Oh, you're one of THOSE people. Can ignore you safely from now on, nevermind you clearly not understanding what the thread is actually about.

[Felis]

The multiple threads where devs have responded to ideas by saying "yes, we will be doing this and that" and then having those ideas patched in proves you wrong, Zanther.

Can't remember that they said once "yes, we will redesign this gear"
Only gear fix if the clipping is too strong.

Two sets. AFAIK, the i90 variety is the same as the i50/55, just another colour. Coincidentally the only two gearsets (so far) that are supposed to represent the job. Yes, if you don't want the belly window, you could glamour it over with something else. Good luck finding a piece that fits the rest of the armour set.

3 sets in 5 days. Don't like the AF1? Use the AF2


(full covered, much less metal)

[R-Kine]

I don't want this armor to be an exact copy between the 2 genders. That is just boring and lazy. I'd like to see differences like the ones found in the WAR AF. Replacing the pants with a skirt or modifying the chest/helmet so you can tell that the wearer is female and not some 4'4" boy. Hell if I had my way I'd go the XI route and have racial+gender differences. MiqoteF and HyurF armor wouldn't be identical. But alas...

Tactics ogre is a fine example of the kind of uh... "armor dimorphism" that I'd like to see.


This thread has been concentrated feminist penis envy for the last few pages, over something stupid no less. Get over the DRG AF already...seriously.

[Nestama]

Can't remember that they said once "yes, we will redesign this gear"
Only gear fix if the clipping is too strong.

That wasn't the point. The point was that SE care about the thoughts of their players (to an extent).

[Mikedizzy]

Female versions of armor in this game are hardly as revealing as gear in many other MMOs.

Yeah what about the "something Light" armor mod for Skyrim...looked bad ass but could get you killed in so many ways it was funny if it was real life.
was it featherlight...can't remember now, sorry. But same thing.

[Zanther]

That wasn't the point. The point was that SE care about the thoughts of their players (to an extent).

SE cares about bug and adding things to improve gameplay. SE does not care about bellybuttonphobia.


Next we'll be arguing on how female characters only gain 77% xp compared to a male characters 100%.